What do you relate?
There’s always people who think they are naguals, I myself had once a pen pall who had an idea that he had the same allies as don Juan. The same or looking same, I’m not sure.
But anyway, what do you think? Do you think you are a nagual, and what are your reasons for that? Or do you relate some other character, and why? Or do you think that being a solo means that you have no character to relate?
Years ago I had an idea (good or bad, I don’t know) that I’m a western dreamer. One of the reasons is quite funny: CC always adored all the women he met, but the only women that weren’t oh sooooooo beautifull were the western women. I haven’t ever considered myself being a gorgeous being, so whatta hell… Let’s be a western woman!
The mood of the west feels familiar (melancholy), and I’m not as sain as normal people like to think they are. I’ve seen some visions when I was younger, and having dreams and Dreams has always been close to my heart (would be even if I hadn’t read CC).
But in the end I mostly think myself as a wanna-be, because the things and people of CC’s books are so far from my reach. And if that all is just fiction… Well, the main thing when living a myth for real is that it’s an interesting one!
D5 Creation
There are so many people and so many terms..
Christ
Indigo Children
Shaman
Nagual
Children Of The Light
etc, etc… We all get ideas….. the process usually goes….
(1)ideas from the nagual/unknown – (2)to concious thought of the idea – (3)to our self-importance assessing the idea…. our self-importance usually abberates what the nagual/unknown tried to imply to begin with.
I don’t think I am anything in particular… I could call myself every name in the book…. its only what I choose to be.
If I were to relate myself to someone in Carlos’ Books I would classify myself as himself… Carlos.
See thats a good way to abberate yourself and your thinking… for all we know you could be a western dreamer… But being ugly isn’t a criterion… I’m sure your gorgeous.. all women assume they’re undesirable, even when they’re desired..
My over-all point is… your thoughts are like people.. they stop you along your path and talk talk talk talk talk talk talk… stalling you along your way….. the only way to shut them up, is to walk away from them… ignore them and press on…
You were born on the path with a heart (freedom) and you imprisoned yourself in your thoughts…. in ‘you’…
Move on, be a western dreamer until you find out what you are… theres only one way to know your not meant for something and thats to experience it…
Dreams are our way of connecting with our true self… our light body/dreaming body… its the closest we get because our mind isn’t chattering away assuming to be something else…
I really really want to address this line of thinking..
YOU ARE WHAT YOU THINK…. You choose moment to moment who and what you are….. Have you ever been talking to someone but had to go to the bathroom really bad? … it felt like the bathroom was so far from your reach because you had to listen to whoever it was because what they had to say was ‘soooo important’ … but as you noticed how far the bathroom was from your reach the persons ramblings became less and less important…… If you keep with your idea that these things are far from you… you will eventually find no use in your own thinking…
which is why your defense mechanism kicked in … and you began to think this is all some science fiction crap regardless of whether or not you still go along with it… your thought process is still not complete.. you still ‘half’ believe it… Meditate on the over-all message I’m sure you’ll be surprised.
I would like to relate this parable.. maybe it might make some sense to some people..
It’s LIKE a TREE trying to be a ROCK…
We Think We’re a ROCK because We’re Told We’re A ROCK
But Infact, We Are A TREE Pretending To Be a ROCK
Just BE The TREE….. Just BE The TREE…
TREES have ROOTS…. ROCKS Do Not.
I thought this thread is just for fun, but your point of view is a good one. It’s easy to laugh that “I like to think I’m this or that just for fun”, but there’s no such thing that’s just fun. Never.
One of my biggest flaws is to fear “over optimism”. I try my best to be humble and not to think big about myself. But maby it’s true: if I think I’m just fly’s shit, then I am.
I’m also a mystery. I should think that more often!
:ph34r:
And… It’s quite easy to relate to Carlos. I did it all the time I read the books. But never I have related myself as double person, although I like more to be in charge than to be guided by another. (Well don’t we all…)
Great post DrakeWan!
Reading these ‘things’ is to me, as refreshing as reading Castaneda; i’m enjoying it so much…
And i’m a guy that wasted 50 years in trying to live as someone else, ‘be somebody’. I hope i didn’t cause too much damage and destruction, but i wanted to be, then became, then was proud of being a stupid paratroops officer. I took part in two stupid wars and numerous ‘behind enemy line operations’. I remember feeling depressed when another commando unit was chosen to ‘go somewhere’; i was willing to ‘kill’ for the chance to kill!
Then, after leaving that unholy-land place, it took me up to just a few years ago, to be able to erase the feelings of guilt and shame for leaving ‘my country’. The same brainwashing and conditioning made me waste so much energy and resources on wanting and then becoming an airline pilot (and what a stupid proud captain i was!). It started with the slogan “The Best Are for Flying”; when you hear these things from the day you are born you then are sure you ‘KNOW’ they are true. It then continued here with the glorification of pilots; all those ‘Top Gun’ movies.
Lilac, it took our friend Castaneda 13 years with the best teacher in the world, and then another twice as many, to change; don’t worry, you’re already a warrior (why waste energy on thinking about “Nagual”? And do you think i didn’t indulge myself with similar thoughts?)
Hey DrakeWan, what’s wrong in being a rootless rock? It took me a long time to get rid of most of my Personal History – my stupid roots. I remember, as a father, thinking that my and children roots are ‘there’ in that land. Then i became a little wiser and told my daughter that her roots are where she wants them to be. Now i know even better – having Personal History (roots) hinders warriorship. It waste so much energy in living, reliving and worrying about the personal (and general Past)
From one of the CC’s books I think I remember that it’s impossible to chance, but there’s no other way than to try to chance anyway.
Today I think one shouldn’t think so much “am I this or am I that, how could I make my personality better” – it’s more about that that the whole personality can be twiched off right away when certain factors permit it. Inner silence, energy level…
There’s a couple of seconds of inner silence in me, that’s a start.
😆
I see exactly what your saying…
and I agree totally..
although.
This is my reference.
The tree is the light body
The rock is the flesh.
so really you have misunderstood my parable.. but thats expected.
You see, what’s alive will always be alive, and whats dead will always be dead…
the flesh is already dead…
the flesh does not live….
WE who are INSIDE of the flesh LIVE…
WE who are in everything LIVE…
We are pure awareness… We consume, or infect everything… in a sense… we eat these dead things… and make them alive.
we eat these dead things is the same as saying we observe these dead things and give them life. We create them to exist in a particular state depending on our assemblage point placement.
Hell the assemblage point is just a focus of awareness that moves…. it is US that is moving, not some mystical assemblage point on OUR body…
Its US moving in a dead thing making it live.
This is so hard for me to explain, because words are sooo useless…
If I could see you all in person I could show you… yet I have no one who is willing to learn.
I would like to comment on something you said in another post..
Those who speak, don’t know, and those who know, don’t speak.
I don’t personally support this ideology.. although I can understand its point.
Those who know, know that those who don’t, won’t understand and will distort that which was actually meant… (i.e. My rock and tree parable.) ..
but I find these days those who know, are the ones who are talking now.
and their methods for making people understand are highly advanced.
The ones who know, in the past got frustrated explaining things because people were block-heads… so they just kept it to themselves… now a days… they don’t care if people are block-heads… they sand and notch those block-heads and smooth the rough edges… indeed the block-heads are the ones whom all these knowledge is for.
Those who know, are the biggest block-heads….. but they aren’t obsessed with their state, they are indifferent towards it.
Someone who understands themselve, sees a block-head, and loves it. controls it and thus changes it.
Accept your block-headedness and BE.
A person who knows can accept the fact they’re a block-head and can move on..
those who don’t know, see themselves as a block-head and use it as an excuse to not move. because they think they’re so self-important that they should be existing in a different state (non-block-headedness) … one who has no self-importance is fine being a block-head.. and doesn’t use it as a stumbling block.
Once again, this is entirely difficult to explain ..
put it this way…
the thing that a person knows, when a person is in the ‘know’ is the fact that they themselves are a block-head and EXACTLY what makes them a block-head
Only when one knows thyself can one change or preempt thyself.
But I do think you’re doing quite well. Thank you 🙂
Yes, DrakeWan, you were right; i only read the last few lines and of course, chose to see only what was ‘easy’ for me to see…
As for those who talk and those who know; the only thing i know about this Lao-tse’s quote, is, that for me it’s very true. :blink:
I think i used the wrong word, Lilac. I think that worriorship is basically learning to live efficiently; to recognize and get rid of as much as possible of the excess, superfluous (nationalism, religion, rituals, the rules of Righteousness and the levels of Benevolence, ââ?¬Ë?family valuesââ?¬â?¢, personal history, self-importance…); another words, returning to be an UNSPOILED CHILD; waking up each morning as an Uncarved Block, loving, learning and admiring a new World.
The problem is that from the day we are born we are told what is ‘good’ and ‘bad’ for us; it becomes a second nature, and in most cases we are sure that those ‘things’ are coming from our hearts. The prison system is very smart, it make live so expensive so after a hard day work, we are left with no time and energy to even ask questions and doubt. And if we do find some extra time and energy, we are bombarded with the religion, ‘spirituality’, gurus industry. Whoops, i’ve been talking too much, but i think i was lucky (as you are) to find Castaneda. There is nothing like the wisdom and teaching of the shamans of Mexico; Taoism is very similar, but doesnt come with as clear ‘instruction’ book as Nagualism. My suggestion is to not spend energy learning about it, but rather just follow it and try to live it. You probably have read all the books, so you have the background; one of the best gifts Carlos Castaneda left for us, is the book “The Wheel of Time”; this is my bible, mirror and reminder. I don’t know if i will be able to SEE energy, but the ‘instructions’ Juan Matus left, and the way Castaneda delivers it to us, are so wise that i think i might be where i want to be quite fast. :unsure:
amos,
I think the most I love about “nagualism” is that it’s about detachement. It can make one fluid. Many other systems just make one go to extremetes on some area and cling to all kind of thing which aren’t very practical at all.
An answer to my silly question “what do you relate?” could eventually be: “I relate to nothing”.
About seeing the energy… Some years ago I woke up in the middle of the night and saw red lines cris crossing all around me in my room in the darknes. Those lines weren’t straight, they curved. This happened to me twice and both occasions I was about to get my periods in a couple of days.
***
DrakeWan,
I think I understand what you mean about being a blockhead and accepting it. Over and over again there has been in CC’s books an idea that nothing can be taken away from tonal. We have to play with those cards we have gotten… The best tonal one can have is not a tonal that disappears completely, but the one who can shut it’s mouth for a while and let the nagual come forward.
Hello,
There are a few topics I have never been able to get CC’s viewpoint on even after following him for 17 years. By the way; I am not anything and have never met anyone important. I guess the only thing reading CC really inspired me to do was write books. Thats all I can admit. Anyhow, what was CCs or DJs view on ufo aliens and Christ? Anyone? David Icke feels christ never even existed and its not that important but id like to know what everyones raving about. If everyones talking about it, it probably is bullshit anyway. Also this childish UFO/Alien issue. This has to be something.but not the something everyone thinks it is. If theres one thing Ive learned, its that everything is something and if i ignore something it could turn on me and harm me. AA taught me that. Thanks
I guess CC said that in a way that aliens are inorganic beings, that’s all. (Thinking mainly about the scouts that aren’t from our world.) I don’t think he said a thing about Christ. I suppose the human mold can make somebody feel that s/he meets Jesus…
I myself just don’t know what to think about aliens. I don’t think people are having just illusions when they are abducted, but wether those beings are humanoids from outer space is not that clear. Some time ago I read an interesting book from Graham Hancock, Supernatural, where he compaired abductions, classic shaman stories and altered states of consciusness and found similarities. He thought that that everyone of us can have those same experiences, some naturally and some only using drugs. Somehow he thinks that those experiences where people meet (inorganic?) beings are real, although people always have to be in certain kind of awaresnes before they can have those close encounters.
About Christ I have read several books of different theories, one time my favorite writers were Freke & Gandy, the first book which I read being The Jesus Mysteries. That book mainly says that the Christ story was made up in Alexandria by Judes who had had incluences of mysteries around Mediterranean area. They wanted to introduce a dying and resurrecting god to Judes who couldn’t think about God having an offspring. Later the story was taken literally and people started to believe that there has actually been a person called Jesus the Christ.
Another writer who is interesting is Laurence Gardner, and “his” Jesus is a king who took the office of the high preast as well, and is supposed to be the forefather of certaing figures like king Arthur etc… Maby just pretty stories…