Dreaming with your dick
I notice I always have an erection when I wake up from dreaming. This has led me to make the connection between sexual energy and dreaming that CC talkes about. My problem is I’m worried about my masterbating interfering with my dreaming. I have a high libido and the most I can hold off for is 3 days. Can anybody give me their experiences with this so that I might avoid unnecessary cold showers 🙂
D5 Creation
I don’t have any answers, but in my opinion overcoming sexual desire requires turning it into nothing… or perhaps turning it into something abstract.
Here’s an idea. Anybody see that movie 40 Days and 40 Nights? The plot in a nutshell is that this guy suspends all sexual discharge for 40 days in order to win a bet. As warriors, or warrior wannabe’s, lets do the same thing. Except…that we’ll do it just for the hell of it. This would be an interesting not-doing! And of course the honor system applies. How does this sound?
sounds like FUN! I’m in.
YIPPIE! Count me in 2.
Cool (sort of)…So 40 days. Starting tomorrow (Wednesday). Last chance to rub one out!!! Choke the chicken! Clean pipe! Polish the bishop!
hughh
5/14/07
Why are you worried? Has it already interfered with it? If not, than what’s the fuss… You just make up a problem that doesn’t exist yet.
But if you’re determined to give up on sex and think that sex is an energy outburst, than I wonder how much more energy will you lose in your attempt to stay away from it?
It sounds like competitiveness kills the whole idea of doing it for the hell of it.
i didn’t mean for this to be a competition. i’m not doing this for a reward…or ummm…bragging rights.
Fire fox, I would like to have a fart to fart with you. You probably projected something into our conversation that wasn’t there. You can only ASSUME the nature of our agreement, just like I can only ASSUME that Ensonar and BratscheWarrior feel the same way that I do in regards to this CHALLANGE. Unless of course you can SEE. Firefox, can you see?
For me this is a challenge in unbending intent. I have recently stopped smoking cold turkey (4 days) I did it by excersing my unbending intent. I want to apply it too jacking off in order to gain a better sense of what unbending intent is.
PEACE!
Count me in on the no sex thing as well.
Well done Smellyfart on the cold turkey. I recently did the same thing with cannabis.
I feel great now. No urge to go back to it. Lets all move forward on our unbending intent. 😀
Then why make it known to others that you’re going to do it? You can make it known to people and still not feel self-important? Are you a formless warrior? 🙂
That’s a good excuse when you want to hide something from yourself.
And now you’re bragging about it for what reason?
To say that you’ve given up smoking thanks to intent seems an exaggeration, too. It’s too hard to intend, and even though I can’t know what you can, somehow your whole question in this thread and the way you write about things makes me think you can’t intend, sorry. As for smoking, drugs, sex, etc., people give these things up all the time with normal human will (not a magician’s will) 🙂
Firefox, I can understand your confusion. And I’m sure that you’re not totally correct, and also not totally incorrect. Things are not always so black and white.
Living in the world and experiencing the way we react to things, and especially the way that the general population reacts to things, we can become very suspicious when anyone claims to act without self-importance.
Now, I’m not saying that any of us here are free of self-importance.
However, I know for a fact that through this path I have lost a bit of self-importance and self-concern. I can still at times be a completely self-absorbed ass, but I usually can see it for what it is, even if I’m not able to stop it from happening.
In the case of this challenge that we’ve decided to take, I believe that it truly is for the hell of it. I’ve gone longer than 40 days before, and I don’t expect the outcome of this challenge to really mean much of anything. I may be dead before the end of it anyway. I’m doing it because I can, and because it sounds like fun. And perhaps I’ll save a bit of energy, or at the very least learn something about myself in the process.
Don Juan mentioned that “a warrior never denies himself of anything”. When it comes to trying to stop ourselves from doing something, this can be a very puzzling concept; stopping without denying. I haven’t quite figured that one out yet, but little by little this concept seems to be growing on me, or into me.
“Impeccability begins with a single act that has to be deliberate, precise, and sustained. If that act is repeated long enough, one acquires a sense of unbending intent, which can be applied to anything else. If that is accomplished the road is clear. One thing will lead to another until the warrior realizes his full potential”
So I guess if you do any act deliberatly, precisely, and sustain it you set the stage for impeccability. This realization exicted me enough to just stop smoking just like nick. It’s so easy. You just have to want to do it and POOF
Ryan I couldn’t agree with you more. You are an absolute GENIUS! 😛
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT……..
Gotta blow off steam/flyers mind.
Why the fuck am i doing this? Making myself feel antsy. Came in contact with 2 real pretty girl today….You are being tested my friend. Jesus Christ. Over a month to go. How could i make this agreement? Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. You think that sugar will make the symptoms go away? You fucking moron! You are pitiful. You are our food. Eat shit., see if we care. Keep twitching my friend. You can’t go even 10 days? Give up! It’s convenient! Who are you fooling?
Just getting this of my chest. i’ll make it.
It’s alright Bratsche. We all go through that sort of thing. I’m feeling pretty damn antsy in me pantsy as well.
That one always gets me. Whenever I make a decision to stop using some feature of my inventory, and then when inevitably I become antsy, uncomfortable, on edge, bitchy, etc. I begin wondering this same thing.
I’m pretty sure the best/only way to root out any ingrained habit is through ceaseless recapitulation. So is what we’re doing right now a useless indulgence?
Firefox, I think we could use some advice. 🙂
Forgot to mention that in the last 10 days, i have been having more dreams. Not dreaming unfortunately, but dreams nevertheless.
Is this happening to anyone else?
Definitely. Pretty strange dreams. In fact there was one I was going to mention here, but I’d forgotten till just now.
A few days ago, I dreamt that I was doing a magical pass that I’ve never learned or seen anywhere before. It involved me reaching out in front of me, almost in the same manner as one of the passes for the center of decisions, but my hands moved into the shape of a bowl, or as if I were cupping water in my hands. I then performed the pass as if I were pouring the “water” into my mouth. Then I did another one immediately after that was exactly the same, except I poured the “water” over my head and face.
I woke up immediately after and layed there thinking about it for a few moments. Then I couldn’t fall back to sleep, I just layed there awake for a while considering whether I should try and reproduce those passes while awake sometime. I was just about to get out bed and read for a while, until it occurred to me that I should maybe actually drink some water. I didn’t feel exceptionally thirsty, but I drank anyway thinking the dream may have indicated a need for water.
I took a few big sips of water and then immediately fell back asleep without even realizing it until I woke up in the morning.
Rather strange experience. Also, I did do the passes from the dream a couple times that day. Basically I just felt kind of dazed that whole day.
I helped myself to a nut.
I lasted 5 days. On the first I did some Dreaming and all I did was grab girls in my dream, but I didn’t cum because I remebered my promise. Today I broke my promise and it felt soooo gooood.
Let us not forget that a warriors discipline is flexible. Denying ourselves is an indulgence. Just follow the flow of energy.
Personally I have not had any form of dreaming since before I posted my night terrors piece. But last night I reached the first gate of dreaming again. I woke up straight away before any actual dreaming took place, but hey it felt good to be back there.
Is this any warrior technique?
i think that discipline and denying are 2 different things. With this no leaking of sexual fluids exercise (chipola, it’s a not-doing), i am eliminating an energy wasting behavior, not deny myself a moment of pleasure. Same as getting rid of something like emotional outbursts. Would you say that ridding yourself of emotional outbursts is really denying yourself of looking like an asshole?
Discipline is the ability to keep doing what one is doing, efficiently and the best that they can. Ryan’s quote sums it up nicely.
There’s that Don Juan quote when Castaneda was supposed to go swimming with his dad. Something about Discipline not being harsh routines and throwing water in you face until your blue (don’t feel like finding it, but thats the gist). It is doing what it takes to accomplish something.
I can see that. I assume that you were joking when you mentioned feeling antsy, but if anyone involved in this not-doing seriously felt that the pressure was too much then they may actually be losing more energy than they are saving, if you see my point.
Actually, i wasn’t joking which proves my point about discipline. You know, i sometimes feel that being on the warrior’s path is one big test. A test full of battles. And this experience is one of them. I have a certain amount of discipline (thanks to other activities where it is not optional) and i am applying it to this situation. i am able to restrain myself enough to let those antsy feelings pass. And i will do whatever it takes to honor this agreement which i freely entered. Maybe if i can save some energy by not-doing this, i can get rid of another useless habit like drinking this sweet sweet coffee…
Song about first obstacle of dick dreaming
allegro:Yeah, I feel da energy, celibate is working 🙂
moony:I’m such a poor, I cannot even to masturbate 🙁
dramatic: I’m so poor I masturbating 🙁
:blink: oops
weepy: I’m so poor I lost my energy:(
folk style: What? What? What to do? With this hole in my pumpkin..
weird way to selfdiscipline not elegant and very slow.
We could become Tantric Sex Warriors. Those guys never spill their seed but still have orgasms. :rolleyes:
I like it!
Try to fight winth tantra energy and your genitalia and later show me your results.
This topi cis very weird.
Why is this topic weird? Does masterbation make you uncomfortable? Did you grow up in a really religious environment?
By the way, maybe you should try being impeccable with your spelling and grammar.
Try to be impecable in my grammar? Try to be coherent with your ideas.
One thing is masturbation in real world (easy to probe and make) and another thing totally different is “dreaming with your dick” (very hard to probe and more to make) and is weird and insane say: dream with your dick is a fighting technique.
Try to fight using your genitalia and tantra techniques. Go, and when you try it if you want post your experiences.
Problem: how do you will probe that?
As initiator of the topic I command both of you to settle down. I will not have arguing in the topics that I preside over. Any more infractions will be dealt a dickslapping.
Coherent with my ideas?!?!?! Well then, i’ll just have to say something insulting back at you!!!!! Humph!!!!
Now i didn’t mean to be malicious, but notice how easy it was to get you to all riled up. How would you use genitalia/tantric techniques (whatever they are) so solve THIS?
You mentionated that, me not.
I only asked if Dreaming with your dick is a warrior technique and step by step you response another things and get angry.
Because my time is precious I dont waste more here (the dream dick topic)
enjoy it.
Naw, i wasn’t getting “angrier” step by step. i got YOU angry in one fell swoop when i insulted you in response to your spelling and grammar. i bet you still think that i’m a bit stupid meanie for making you react the way you did.
So what are these tantric techniques you speak of? i honestly want to know.
i’ve decided to remove myself from our agreement. After feeling what i was feeling, i felt i was denying myself and was not able the find some way to harness the aggressive energy that i was apparently trying to save.
And kudos Chipola for keeping your word and ending your posts in this topic despite my deliberate provocation. It was the impeccable thing to do.
Ok Bratsche. I have removed myself also this week. It was an interesting experiment while it lasted.
It’s okay, I guess none of us lasted very long. But in my opinion it was just an indulgence in the first place. A worthy try, but an indulgence none the less.
Recapitulation is where it’s at!
As one sleeps one goes into dreamng.At first it takes awhile to dream.The nights first dreams are short{ few minutes).As sleep progresses dreaming comes quicker and lasts longer{30-45minutes}This usually peaks 3-6AM.Dreaming is associated with certain brainwave paterns, REM(rapid eye movement) and stimulation of the sympathetic and parasympathatic nervous systems.This stimulation causes an erection by dilating the vessels in the penis.This is why men wake up with an erection.Similarlly, after sex and this explosive energy release in the parasympathetic and sympathetic systems a man is in a deep relaxed state and will fall asleep.(Contrary to the theories put out by women) 😆
You can’t do Toltec Dreaming without sexual energy….Period…
An Orgasm is not just a matter of biology in toltec philosophy. It is not just a matter of DNA and chromosomes entering the female woumb and impregnating her egg. Their is also the aspect of consciousness, energy. At the moment of the male orgasm, he is releasing a part of his energy, his being, to give birth to new consciousness, to new life, a new vessel of energy, the baby, a luminous egg…..
This is why sexual energy is so critical for dreamers. You can either use it to create life, or use it for dreaming power. It is all equal, you can masterbate or not masterbate, it is all a matter of your personal intention with that sexual energy.
I have studied Hindu philosphy where the orgasm is seen as a fluctuation of energy. This is true also. But keep in mind, the intent for sexual energy between the two disciplines is different. They are not using it for dreaming. In midevil pagan religion the use of sex was also used to create energy. But again, they were not using it for DREAMING….
Just my 2 kilos…
Howdylidoodily!
This topic interests me! A few (possibly contradictory) points.
1. If you’ve read Papillion or seen the film (with Steve McQueen and Dustin Hoffman), you might remember when McQueen is stuck in solitary confinement indefinitely and the Warden, before tossing him in there, advises not to waste energy by gratifying himself. He said it would drain his energy. Apparently, they were observant of the past prisoners who had survived the longest. So not wanking is not just applicable to “warriors”. It’s just that there’s an abstract intent behind it for them.
(As a sidenote, I recommend watching or reading that story. Breaking free is its theme- at least for me it was)
2. “Onanism is a hands-on job” – Ghost from Enter the Matrix video game.
3. When I first started trying to Ensonar I had relative success (before the reality of needing to do a thorough Recapitulation became apparent). At that stage I was trying to “not-wank”. Sometimes when I would start becoming aware of the items in my dream I would wake up as I ejaculated. I realised then it was like having a wet dream. Funnily enough, at age 22, it was my first ever wet dream! How? You ask. Well, if you looked up “wanker” in the dictionary there should be a photo of me!
What’s the point with all this? In “The Power Of Silence” I can’t remember the exact quote and you’ve probably read/heard this before, but Don Juan says something like you either use sexual energy for sex or for dreaming.
The choice is up to us. I guess it depends which voice you listen to…
Disclaimer: The little sobriety I have tells me I should make it clear that I haven’t found the answer to the original question of this thread. But I *choose* to keep fighting.
Oh yeah, something that always come to mind after I’ve spilt my milk: That line from Marvin Gaye’s song Sexual Healing….”It helps to relieve the mind, healing, my darling…”
My unvoiced question is always, “Which mind?”
Question…
What is sexual energy?
Orgasm? Lust? Sex without orgasm? Preoccupation with sex?
In your opinion (anyone on this board that is), what do you feel is entailed in “saving one’s sexual energy”?
Stop having sex altogether? Stop having orgasms? Stop thinking about sex entirely? Forget about sex altogether?
Just curious about everyone’s thoughts on the matter.
From my understanding, sexual energy is all energy. That is, all energy is sexual energy.
And how do we save (sexual) energy? Impeccability. Devoting yourself to the Warrior’s Way.
What if having sex was a not-doing?
Just looked up onanism in the dictionary. I learn something new everyday ha ha.
With regard to having sex as a not-doing, I would assume this would only be true if you were not ordinarily interested in sex in the first place. Otherwise it’s still a doing.
One thing I have been thinking about is how does a male warrior lose his edge when fathering a child? I can see how energy can be lost through the sexual act. But a woman does not fall pregnant straight away, it can sometimes be hours before a sperm reaches the egg. Energy lost in sex can be regained, but energy lost fathering a child is apparently lost until somehow reclaimed back in later life.
So if impregnation occurs an hour after the man has expended his energy, how is the extra energy taken from him to create the life? Hope that makes sense.
If i’m understanding what your getting at, your seeking a linear explanation. Trying to wrap your mind around something that doesn’t quite make sense. And in saying that, i have no explanation. How puny reason is. Reason doesn’t know what to make of things that can’t be explained. And yet i might have found that it’s a powerful tool you can use to get your way (evil maniacal laughter in the background).
So what does onanism mean? i thought it was a spelling error. 😉
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onanism]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onanism[/url]
I feel that the energy used to interact with your enviroment could be classed as ual energy. I’ve been wondering, is the act of using the imagination “calling intent” ? How does it differ from the general term intending?
I reckon it’s the whole enchilada (?). As long as you’re attention is consumed by “looking at the woman in the red dress”, to quote The Matrix, then your assemblage point will have the tendency to remain fixed in the same spot. In this case, I’d say that would be at the point of self-reflection.
Lately, whenever I get a hard-on I’ve been jumping up to do magical passes from The Series for The Womb. Seems to help somewhat. It does say that by doing so, it will awaken the secondary function of the male genitals- evolutionary support. To me, that says it will “put to sleep” their primary function.
I have a question about The Series for The Womb but I’ll post it in the “Tensegrity” forum.
According to Don Juan if you have a child you are basiclly crippled in the path of a warrior. In The Second Ring of Power I believe doesnt La Gorda tell Castaneda about her attempt to kill her daughter who was stealing her energy simply by being born……? If im not mistaking it was Don Juan himself who told her that with her that in order for her to advance she had to “deal” with her daughter.
I am not all sure on this info. Anyone have some insight on the story I’m talking about?
If i recall correctly, La Gorda had to steal her edge back from her kid (and did). Which essentially means that her kid will die without being complete and if i understand correctly, that means no freedom.
From the last interview in the interview section:
“Seers recommend celibacy for young practitioners because we are trained to approach sexuality from the standpoint of an investor. ââ?¬Å?Iââ?¬â?¢ll do this for you if you do that for me.ââ?¬
I wanted to know what happened but didn’t see the other pages. Never mind.
Interesting topic. I’m making my way through it. Here’s one comment:
“Don Juan mentioned that “a warrior never denies himself of anything”. When it comes to trying to stop ourselves from doing something, this can be a very puzzling concept; stopping without denying. I haven’t quite figured that one out yet, but little by little this concept seems to be growing on me, or into me.”
DJ explained that denying oneself gives the false impression that we’re accomplishing something. My interpretation or understanding is that it is the self that determines to deny the self (when I say “self”, I mean “me” or “mind”).
J. Krishnamurti’s books really clarified this for me. Other non-duality authors speak of it. They usually use the analogy of a cop trying to catch a thief when he himself is the thief.
The mind will never end the mind. It’s a joke! Denying oneself is the mind trying to end the mind, and thus useless to a warrior.
But acting for the hell of it is another thing.
“Why the fuck am i doing this? Making myself feel antsy. Came in contact with 2 real pretty girl today….You are being tested my friend. Jesus Christ. Over a month to go. How could i make this agreement? Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. You think that sugar will make the symptoms go away? You fucking moron! You are pitiful. You are our food. Eat shit., see if we care. Keep twitching my friend. You can’t go even 10 days? Give up! It’s convenient! Who are you fooling?”
You see. Mind can only enhance mind. Mind denying mind actually empowers mind. Now mind is in conflict with itself. Flyer food.
Hmmm. I wonder who will win the mind versus mind conflict?…
“I helped myself to a nut.
I lasted 5 days. On the first I did some Dreaming and all I did was grab girls in my dream, but I didn’t cum because I remebered my promise. Today I broke my promise and it felt soooo gooood.”
Oh look! The mind won!
😀
Please no one take this personally. I’m not speaking about any person. Every mind does this… no need to make it personal. I’m laughing at mind, not any individual.
“i think that discipline and denying are 2 different things.”
I used to agree. But now I see that it really depends on what discipline is – meaning who is doing the disciplining.
If the mind decides to discipline the mind, what good is that? It’s the same as denying – you feel like you’ve accomplished something and you’ve only enhanced your mind.
For me, I like getting to the core of things. Discipline and denial and morality and spirituality… etc, etc…
All these topics are surface oriented. When we look below the surface to see who is doing them, we find the root – the self which seeks to improve itself… but self-improvement is for weiners. 😉 Self-destruction is hard-core. :angry:
But the self doesn’t have to be destroyed either. It just has to be seen for what it is – a bundle of thoughts bound by the cohesive force of intent as memory. Identification with the body and mind makes this bundle of thoughts seem more important than all the other thoughts arising in the universe. But we’re not just this bundle. This cocoon can be broken and we can merge back into infinity.
Let’s merge back into infinity for 40 days, just for the hell of it!
Sound fun? 😆 lmao!
Nice post Medicine man.
I’m glad that was added. Any talk about sexual energy should include this view since it is a clear and direct view of what happens. (I’d put “IMO”, but it’s not my opinion, it just is what happens when we have sex or spill semen).
(referring to May 21st post)
Reply to your other post – La Gorda ends up just taking the edge back from her daughter with her will. She didn’t have to kill her. She had to meet her, look her in the eye, basically say thanks and I own this… I no longer agree to my previous unconscious agreement to give you this energy… and then with an act of will pulled the energy back.
As I recall, this does not kill the child. It is explained that the child does not need this extra energy, but a warrior does. The child won’t be as high energy, but it doesn’t kill them.
My success with matters such as this is to equalize everything by reducing it to thoughts arising. If you’re going to think about these things and let your thoughts seem real enough to deal with, to have to do something about, then you’re snared… it’s too late. Go backwards to the point where you’re thoughts are just one description amongst millions.
How do you know what a “hot” girl is?
Isn’t this distinction arbitrary, even though consnsus agrees?
Why are butts and breasts attractive? What makes them more than flesh?
Answer: our mind.
If you can’t stop thinking, then use thinking to counter thinking by questioning “How can I know that for sure?” or by simply observing the mind as thoughts arising.
I’ll have to give some thought to the sexual energy question.
My initial response is that energy is energy, and I don’t concern myself with dividing it. But there is something to sexual energy that deserves attention.
I’m on a posting marathon… I need to not think about all this for a short while and eat something.
I am very grateful for this place and each of you.
Does anyone else find this cruel? You basically deny the child a chance to be free. That’s why i won’t have kids.
Labels.
It is what it is. It is a warrior who has found the door to freedom taking back some energy that they gave, unconsciously, without conscious agreement (I don’t know if Miguel Ruiz means anything to you, but do you recall that a warrior doesn’t have to keep agreements s/he didn’t make? La Gorda never agreed to give that child her energy.) … taking back some energy from someone who may or may not ever find the door to freedom, with or without the energy.
Leaving that energy because the child might have a chance in the future, when you do have a chance now… a warrior doesn’t live that way. A warrior doesn’t deny the present, or not answer the knock of the spirit.
I don’t know that this denies the child a chance to be free.
I’m not sure why you think that.
I know for a fact it’s not cruel though, unless you intend to be cruel. As far as I can see, La Gorda just intended to be free, not cruel. Actually, according to the book, she loved the child.
From a social human perspective, I can see that this seems cruel. But from a warrior’s perspective… from the impersonal… I can’t even begin to think the thought “cruel”.
😆
I’m laughing cause I can see that you have no idea what you’re saying, and that you’re just regurgitating Gurdjieff!
😆 “reGurdjieffating”
Do you want to play, BratscheWarrior? Why don’t you tell me how you understand that all energy is sexual energy?
Does your computer run off semen too? Cause I thought I had the only one!
“What if having sex was a not-doing?”
Then I’d be Don Fucking Juan!
“Having” sex! 😆
Yet another possession.
“I have the sex now. It’s dirty sex, so be careful. I’ll just put it in this zip-loc bag and save it for later. Just look at all this sexual energy I’ve accumulated. I better get a bigger freezer.”
😆
Blah blah blah blah blah…it’s funny what you are assuming about me. Just proves to me that you are not a Warrior. It’s not criticism, you just are not.
You needed proof?
Why, did you want to worship me?
Have I ever claimed to be a warrior?
I’ve only clarified what a warrior is and isn’t.
There are absolutely no warriors here.
If you’re looking for one, this isn’t the place.
If you were one yourself, you wouldn’t be looking for others to be one.
Every one of us is guilty of summing up people and making a decision whether they’re warriors or whatever.
Does anyone realise why we do this? What the consciousness behind it is?
Anyone summing up someone else is not themselves whatever they’re looking for in the other. I guarantee you that.
The consciousness behind this criticism and summing up (and yes, it is criticism – check your dictionary) is comparison. And i can say absolutely that anyone comparing is not “it”. You have to come out of “it” in order to compare. There is no comparison without first intending seperation. To even be able to consider the possibility or ask the question, “Am I ‘it’? Is he ‘it’?” requires that you’re not.
While you’ve been searching for proof, you could have just asked me. I’d have told you I’m no warrior. It should be apparent from my posts that I’m not trying to be any label.
As long as being a warrior is a goal, you’ll never reach it.
Just be whatever you are. Instant success!
Drop the labels. How can you know what you are or aren’t? Instant mystery!
I still don’t have a good answer for sexual energy. Just acquired knowledge.
My acquired knowledge says that sexual energy could be everything because everything exists in polarities, all the way down to atoms and subatomics – so that’s sex: male and female.
Another answer could be kundalini in the base “chakra” which is the power source for the “higher” energy centers.
From my experience, not acquired knowledge, I’ve come to see how amazing it is to actually be present in the world. The thing I used to search for isn’t in some “higher” sphere, some mental gimmick, some astral projection or ascension, etc. Completion is right here. This moment is full (and empty). Being physical is the gateway into presence, into the warrior’s world of actions. And sex is perhaps the most powerful physical event there is. But being present is just as intimate. It’s just that sex is available to almost everyone, while presence is the obvious unobvious.
Forgive me for just posting quotes, but this knowledge may be helpful to some.
Again, from U.G. Krishnamurti:
“The natural needs of a human being are basic: food, clothing and shelter. You must either work for them or be given them by somebody. If these are your only needs, they are not very difficult to fulfill. To deny yourself the basic needs is not a sign of spirituality; but to require more than food, clothing and shelter is a neurotic state of mind.
Is not sex a basic human requirement? Sex is dependent upon thought; the body itself has no sex. Only the genitals and perhaps the hormone balances differ between male and female. It is thought that says “I am a man, and that is a woman, an attractive woman.” It is thought that translates sex feelings in the body and says “These are sexual feelings.” And it is thought that provides the build-up without which no sex is possible: “It would be more pleasurable to hold that woman’s hand than just to look at her. It would be more pleasurable to kiss her than just to embrace her,” and so on. In the natural state there is no build-up of thought. Without that build-up, sex is impossible. And sex is tremendously violent to the body. The body normally is a very peaceful organism, and then you subject it to this tremendous tension and release, which feels pleasurable to you. Actually it is painful to the body.
But through suppression or attempts at sublimation of sex you will never come into this state. As long as you think of God, you will have thoughts of sex. Ask any religious seeker you may know who practices celibacy, whether he doesn’t dream of women at night. The peak of the sex experience is the one thing in life you have that comes close to being a first-hand experience; all of the rest of your experiences are second-hand, somebody else’s. Why do you weave so many taboos and ideas around this? Why do you destroy the joy of sex? Not that I am advocating indulgence or promiscuity; but through abstinence and continence you will never achieve a thing.”
Mouse from The Matrix film:
To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human.
He, the only crew member aboard the Nebudchenezzer to have virtual sex with The Woman In The Red Dress or at least to not deny his impulses, is then the first to die when they are all ambushed by the Agents after an inside tip-off from Cypher.
I just did a little Google search for “krishnamurti on sex” and found [url=http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/k_psy3.html]this article[/url]. Within it I found this paragraph which I found to be very interesting and concise:
“So, in every field, in every activity, you are indulging and emphasizing yourself, your importance, your prestige, your security. Therefore, there is only one source of self-forgetfulness, which is sex, and that is why the woman or the man becomes all-important to you, and why you must possess. So, you build a society which enforces that possession, guarantees you that possession; and naturally sex becomes the all-important problem when everywhere else the self is the important thing. And do you think, Sirs, that one can live in that state without contradiction, without misery, without frustration? But when there is honestly and sincerely no self-emphasis, whether in religion or in social activity, then sex has very little meaning. It is because you are afraid to be as nothing, politically, socially, religiously, that sex becomes a problem; but if in all these things you allowed yourself to diminish, to be the less, you would see that sex becomes no problem at all.“
When something is so, it is so, and it doesn’t matter who says it. But for sake of clarity, I want to point out that there are two Krishnamurtis – J. and U.G. – not related, but similar. Both freed themselves (or became free) of the mind and thought and seperation/fragmentation. They write a bit differently, U.G. still being direct and to the point, but J. with a bit more explanation or step-by-step leading you to see for yourself. U.G.’s remaining character seems much more like a warrior than J. to me, but like I said, both are speaking from direct seeing of what is.
My recent quotes were from U.G. and the above article is from J., just for clarity, if it matters to anyone.
Thanks for the clarification. Funnily enough, I just discovered exactly that through wikipedia.