Secrecy and the New Wave
Where do you feel this is all going?
How has Nagualism / the works of Carlos Castaneda affected you? In what ways have you put it into effect? Are you overly secretive? Have you left your family and friends? Has your life and energy improved from your practices?
Carlos Castaneda wrote some books that allowed anyone in the world to have access to knowledge and techniques that have been formulated in secrecy for many thousands of years. But what will we do with it?
Don Juan told Carlos that one day he may ditch the shamanistic rituals and go in a new direction. Well, he may not have said that exactly, but something along those lines. (I believe he mentions this in “The Wheel of Time”)
Maybe it’s just me, and what I’m going through at the moment. I go through periods of following the methods presented in Carlos Castaneda’s books very intensly, and then at some point, I’ll ease up for a while, and just let go. And it feels like the intensity followed by a release is causing a greater and greater feeling of freedom within me
I’m more than slightly rambling here, but what I’m trying to get at is… What do you think it means to be a sorcerer/warrior in this moment in time? Do you feel that any of the techniques and methods need improving or updating to live in society today?
I personally feel like I’ve seen a definite evolution of mood going on in the updates and practitioner comments on the Cleargreen site.
Basically, I’m trying to start conversation here, and trying to understand some things that are going on in my life. And I’m trying to understand which direction to go in. I’ve been living in secrecy in some aspects for a long time, and I’m considering easing up. It feels like easing up and not trying to be so secretive will lift a weight off of me. The secrecy in itself lifted a great deal of weight, but now the secrecy itself is beginning to feel heavy.
What are your thoughts on secrecy?
D5 Creation
Excuse my english, is not my native tongue.
I think the problem for the honest people, at the moment, is many people trying to made an escape of a tedious life. Some people do something in the secrecy, but many of the Castanedas readers, now are trying to get some external in the way, calling themselves warriors, and dont use the dream or the stalk to change really the lives, they go to any way to made a escape of the floor of the living, and try to get power in the dreaming, and no in the way with heart.
In my humbre opinion, The Nagualism as is now, is go to destroy itself. The people in the secrecy do some things, but the public, not. Mystics vs really warriors then.
Okay…so I’m new at this sharing stuff. I’m at a place in my life where I have recently started again… for awhile I chose for my energy focus to be elsewhere. I put up alot of walls -to stop the visions, voices, out of body experiences. (I do not recomend anyone do this — It caused severe migraines and a total imballance of my soul. At the beginning of summer I decided to be “my self”. Luckily I didn’t have much problems reaquainting my self again -basic exercise of locating my toes -lol- accompanied with continued meditation helped I think. We have every Castenada book -My hubbie is a fan. I have been hesitant to read them (I did read the one about the sisters)-I have also started to read the Lagorda one -on his suggestion since its focus is more on women. My experiences are purely my own and the way I speak of them may be confusing as I have not shared them with anyone except my hubbie. My lucid dreaming has basically been me living in “My Wonderland” a world that seems more real and colorful than this one, a world I would prefer to stay in if I did not choose to remain attached to my responsibilities of motherhood. Has anyone done this? Ballance the worlds – I want both. I do not wish to cut my ties to my family – however I do wish to grow and blend these two realms … I feel another pulling at me, a third… I don’t really know how to describe this part… this feeling. Okay enough of me sharing …till next time.
~Sherry
I think that’s what it’s all about. And that is really what i was talking about in the original post. How to balance living in society with trying to live a dream.
For me, it seems like sometimes we have to go to strange lengths to reach a certain threshold where we can live in the everyday world, yet not be touched, or affected by it in a way that limits us.
I think nagualism’s techniques show us some of these strange lengths.
I think we should consider an idea that not everything C.C. had from don Juan was mentioned to every human being. It may be possible that some of those things was ment just C.C. himself. I’ve heard other people saying that don Juan knew C.C was after glory, welth and power, and to awoid him getting them don Juan told him to be secretative.
I don’t mean that we should shout about nagualism to every other guy next to us, but do we really have to abandon all the people from time to time to be free? I don’t know. Is it possibe to have a family and friends and still be detached? I’ve heard many people in the Net saying they have children and still they think they are sorcerers. I don’t have children and it’s ok to me, but it may be one of the things that makes me feeling “I’m going mad!” very very often. There is nothing to make me rooted… (I do have a partner though, but seems it don’t stabilize me…)
:blink:
Anyway, I remember don Juan saying that warriors should make new names to things every time they feel something has to be updated. Why limit updating into names?
And if anything about the things C.C wrote never happened… Then we are really free to do as we please.
😆
yes, about the opening discusion about being secretive. i am write with you, for many years i’ve kept to myself, except for necessary busyness. i had left friends, and barely contacted family. This has allowed me to view the world in unexplanable ways, or maybe it is knowing without words. Recently though I’ve felt the desire to somehow connect or communicate or something i’m not sure of. I’ve even snooped around some online dating sites. What it seems though is that this would take me back to the place I had been in before. Been there done that.
i dont tell anyone about my path if i know they are going to cruxcify me.
i camre out of the broom closet to my parents and friends. my parents didnt like the idea at first but i met them halfway and mix a little catholic magick into my style. my friends dont really care about it. i dont get treated different . they ask me to tell them stories about my expericenes when we get together. i have even done a little don juan trickery to get my friend to give me energy healings. maybe he will use what i shared with him someday.
i’ ve always been enough secretive to be able to work through the years…
on the other hand many times happened just the contrary; opening to infinity have talked at great lenght about nagualism even to people completely unconcerned with otherworldly stuff… of course it all depends from the current mood of the warrior: being too secretive will conduct to self importance, being too willing of making others joining will produce pragmatic problems for one’ s life!
I’m as secretive as I need to be, and because I’m secretive in some aspects people assume I’m bullshitting them all the time.. lol 😉
But really.. I can understand what Don Juan was saying about ditching the shamanism thing… lol 😉 heheh Can’t you see the recapitulation happening to everyone at every turn… and the self-importance training all around us..? our media sources are stuffed with … ‘training’ and lessons and helping… petty tyrants don’t need to be sought after anymore that’s for sure… It’s in our music, our TV shows, our movies… it’s in us.
There’s so many kids out there soooo screwed up due to erratically moving “assemblage points”… … whether it’s drugs or shitty home lives.. it’s all relative, but all of these ‘goth’ kids.. or cutting kids are just using different methods to move their assemblage points… although laterally, none of them have any of these tools… impeccability, stalking, dreaming.. many of them just Half-Ass stalk, missing some of the vital parts that make a stalker a master stalker…. and some dreamers are the same.. most are just lucid dreamers who morbidly believe their dream-worlds, and happenings.
There’s major problems …. open your eyes to the intent of freedom…. the world is crying.
Listen to the shaman of the jungle… who are stuck with none of this knowledge, just dreamers…. or just curers, using dreams.. without knowing of any of the other aspects..
The oil companies are destroying their habitat..
and our reason in the west is destroying our habitats .. (our bodies) ourselves..
Finally with quantum physics the west learns about the nagual… be warned they will consume it for their own benefits quickly..
My mission or path has always been freedom, way before I even started reading Carlos Castaneda… I had serious bouts with death (born with my intestines out, [gastroscisis]) upon entering this world and the spirit helped me tremendously for its purposes not mine… and coincidentally without knowing it, it was freedom.. I dropped out of school because it wasn’t teaching me what I wanted and I couldn’t read the books I wanted because I had school to deal with … so I had to ditch it.. and working was minimal for me… only when needed, I moved away from home at a young age. (15) away from family, which I’ve never really considered family … stumbled around the gnostic/esoteric areas of knowledge, learned a lot, a lot that I can apply a lot better now with the knowledge I have recently learned, because I can better see more of what they were trying to saying.. without their horrible descriptions, or my horrible bias upon hearing certain words.. or my utter confusion… so I was either always driven by freedom for my body, or opinions, or my actions… and my side project has always been trying to get other people to seek the same quest, showing them the things I learn how-ever I can, by using as many different outlooks at possible so they can understand it’s just a description.
but I think we should take Don Juans advice and never-mind with the particulars, we should focus on the path.. which is freedom.. the one with the most heart ever…
Don Juan said that the only thing indespensible in what we do is the spirit. In my life impeccability has always meant unceaslessly searching for edifices of intent and abandoning myself to it’s flow. The extent and the intensity that I am able to do that fluxuates, but my unbending intent remaines fixed inspite of my indulgences.
I left my job, family, and friends deciding to live on the streets as a “homeless person” and just let me say that if you want to cut to the chase, I cant think of any faster way to lose self importance, and at the same time observe the social matrix from an objective standpoint. It has taught me about roles and about projection. It has caused me to redefine definitions of words that I have carried all my life. It’s taught me that you are what ever your want to be, and if you intend it impeccably, and embody it, that’s what everyone takes you for, because that’s who you are. We truly are nothing, because we are everything. At this present momment it time I’m telemarketing and you know what, IM GOOD AT IT! me, mr. shy, I mean my shyness bordered on paranoia. Confidence for me isn’t knowing who you are, it’s knowing what your not, and that emptieness gives you the courage to face the unknown.
Beautifully put. Thank you
It seems to me that we’re discussing loneliness here… And probably that’s why this forum exists, too – people want to keep their image, not just to share information? I often have that ‘I’m so lonely that I want to die’ mood. What can be done about it? Impeccability can be done about it, I think 🙂 Recapitulation can help to sever links to others and make you detached. But, it’s a long way to go…
In fact, you know that you have nothing in common with people around, they are who they are and are happy to be. But still you feel like you want their company. Why? Their company, even as useless as it is, makes you feel that you ‘exist’. But what exists is that ‘image for others’ that CC and others tried so hard to eliminate.
If you tell someone about nagualism, you’re destroying your chances at freedom. You’re adding nagualism to your image, so that you’ll have to stop practicing nagualism now to eliminate that image. A dead end.
Why stopping to practice makes you feel suddenly free? I think that happens when you lost your motivation and are trying to find it. CC had gaps in his apprenticeship, too 🙂 We’re changing, we’re requestioning ourselves what we want all the time. And we might stop practicing altogether, coz there’s noone to nudge us. So it’s not surprising. For myself I decided to never requestion myself again – the changes in my ‘character’ happen often anyway, so that motivation has to be renewed all the time. One thing fits the idea about responsibility and inability to cancel one’s decisions: if you start questioning yourself, just remind yourself that you’ve made the decision already and you’re the one responsible for it. Works for me so far.
The main reason for searching people who practise “nagualism” for me is about finding a proof that these things do work and I’m not after illusions. The human world has quite a hold on me, and it is poisonous and deadly.
I guess there is no proof, there are no ways to really know that there is a freedom and it can be reached. All I can do is try to be as impeccable as I can, because it’s the only way to be to me. And I know I do about the exact opposite to that. I’m a fart.
I just do it for kicks! It’s fun talking 😉 😛 😉
proof comes with time, but it allways is a personal one (or maybe shared if you have other who know)
For me it took some time (though with damage to body thought power plants)
But i can’t regret anything (cheers for recapitulation)
I feel that what i’ve seen is just the begining
Now I’am looking for people who will join me, but not much progress there, tricking people into it isnt easy and it’s going slow.
The thing i’am wondering is about the part where Power selects apprentices and that naguals don’t just go around just picking people…
I’am kinda breaking this rule, but on the other hand, if i live with power then the feeling, that that person could follow it is all i need for that ? about omens ? The way things happens works diferent for diferent warriors, my intuition makes that decidions and so far it haven’t let me down.
On the other hand when DJ was sitting with CC in the park near the church and asked CC to evaluate Tonals, he said that CC doesn’t have enought Personal Power to bring a warrior just propert tonals. So if a power bring me a proper tonal – it is power that does it, so could count as an omen ? =) Of should i wait for something to happen before i act ?
comments ?
So you are looking for other “proper tonals” to join you? Join you in what way? For what reason?
to ceate a new group
CC works are not popular in my country, so i will introduce them myself
I’ve met few starlkers in day-to-day world, now it’s the tricking part and teaching rest of knowledge
allhough I might be bending some of teachings and adding new things (from other sources), I feel it will come out good anyway
will see 🙂
one cannot teach these things until one fully understands…. that is to say… one who has seen the beginning and the end.
To teach without a good grasp is leading others into a pit.. the pity is… you will fall into it first.
maybe i’ve seen it, and lived it.
remembering it is the hard part
Many of us are not mature enough to stop playing pretend. I’ve seen it over and over on Nagualism based message boards and groups. Everyone wants to pretend they’re a nagual, pretending that they have something to teach the rest of us, or they want to start a “group”. Why not be humble and be concerned only with becoming a mature and focused warrior? Wanting to start a group is nothing but putting yourself in a place of importance.
Don Juan didn’t “want” to start a group. Don Juan didn’t pick people to be in his party. Intent chose and he acquiesced. As he said, he wasn’t concerned with teaching anyone, his only concern was continuing his lineage. And as we know, that lineage stopped with Carlos, Florinda, Taisha, and Carol.
In my opinion we are all now part of the new configuration. Carlos spread this knowledge far and wide with his books. I am not saying that new configurations, or groups wouldn’t be possible. Anything is possible. But I feel very confident that new configurations would not be put together by someone who goes around telling people about it on a message board. It would be by someone who SEES. And not someone who goes around telling people that they see on message boards… warriors don’t go around boasting things. And also it wouldn’t be someone who defends themselves on message boards either.
A true warrior-seer may not be easy to spot if they are purposely remaining hidden, but a sham-warrior can be spotted in a second, by the childish way they approach things.
That being said, I’m not trying to put you down Jin. I come off a bit harshly sometimes, but don’t take it personally. We’re all dumb-asses most of the time. 🙂
I’am not concerned i’am nagual or not, it doesnt matter. what i know, is that I can transfer my energy to others and that nagualism teaches a way to ascension to higher plains of existence, theory and methods work and i’ve seen that.
I could do it alone, but why should i ? If others are capable of coming along with me, why not ?
I’am not Don Juan I’am from a different time and my mission here is not of his. I have other views, and even if CC wrote 11 books there many things he didn’t write and didn’t even know, u can see in other toltec books writen by other people. The thing is Dun Juan didn’t give CC all he could (or maybe CC just didn’t wan’t others to see that) and in one of books DJ told that CC spirit takes only prisoners, it doesnt give freedom, so there is a lot to question. especiali considering the usage of art of stalking that all over the basic structure of his books
I’am using the theory and the methods from Toltecs and add other ways I have found and will find. There are many thing I still don’t understand, so I’am sharing and gathering all the information i can find. though at some point it won’t matter anymore (but that point isn’t here jet 🙂
group is a way of combining energy (take group meditation for exaple) so it speeds up things a bit, the more u have the higher the energy – the higher vibrational frequensy – better access to other dimensions =)
btw take a look at that
Nova – The Elegant Universe – Part III – Welcome to the 11th Dimension.avi
as toltecs said 4 dimensions we see now + 7 others world (2 of them nicknamed by cristianity hell and haven) = 11
science have also found that, and they also think that’s it’s all matter of energy
I agree with most of what you’re saying here, and perhaps I misjudged your intentions. There are a lot of people concerned with acting like a nagual, and maybe I jumped too quickly at lumping you in with them.
If it’s just a matter of finding others with similar interests, well then that’s pretty much exactly what we’re all doing on this message board. And if a group of people with similar interests begin working together, all the better. 🙂
I too am interested in the findings of quantum physics, because they seem to be heading in a similar direction to some of the things found in nagualism, taoism, and other such mystical traditions. The fact that science is actually starting to prove some of the more abstract possibilities of the nature of reality is absolutely fascinating to me.
I see a lot of this with anyone and everyone on the internet… on the internet everyone is a leader…. the whole idea of the internet is everyone is a leader of what they view…
in a world of leaders nothing ever actually gets done because “the leaders” are too busy trying to lead everyone and have everyone follow them.
You would have to understand that most peoples intentions are positive… When they try to explain the nagual, they are only trying to help…. would it not be self importance to think what they have to say is pretending?
without self-importance everyones words are the same as everyone elses… because without self-importance you can see the nagual in everything everyone does or says..
Well, it is useless in all reality to initiate a group where people join at will, or by clever advertising… People have to understand what it implies….
We all should remember Don Juan saying the words he chooses are just chosen because they worked the best and that future seers would make their own words to describe it accurately to the new non-seers…
Carlos’ books weren’t the bible… Don Juan made it clear that concepts and descriptions would be updated, but not the over-all concept…
I agree with you, but I think you’re observing this from a abberated view-point… no offense at all
‘mature’ ? Don Juan and Don Genaro were anything but mature.. lol 😉
neither were they overly humble…
they were impeccable. nothing more, nothing less.
Perhaps it is impeccability that lead people to wanting a person to form a group… maybe it isn’t the person that is ‘creating’ the group that is being self-important, but yet the ‘followers’ making someone else important… like Carlos did with Don Juan…
sometimes people are more advanced for their own reasons… and others seek their guidance…
Carlos didn’t become a nagual all on his own… he needed everyones assistance..
He needed people to think of him as the nagual yet think of him as a total fool, it kept them from becoming obsessed with him… (not everyone obviously) … Carlos was the new Nagual…. the new teacher… the fool and the teacher…. it stopped people from looking up and worshipping their teacher.
……Please see what your own statement portrays…
Don Juan wasn’t important enough to want to start something… instead he let things happen as they were supposed to by following/listening to intent… Intent showed him people and he had to be sure that it was intent and not his self-importance choosing..
He wasn’t concerned with teaching because teaching implies worldly things.. or worldly knowledge… what he had to ‘express’ or teach was not just a method of calculating Pi… it was REALITY…. You cannot really teach something that “is”…. you can only unlearn what one has made concrete in their own mind… one can only fix anothers abberations… nothing less, nothing more.
Yes, we ALL are… meaning every human… thought spreads like wild-fire… whats in ones head transfers to everyone elses in the vicinity…
…………………
The thing is, we can’t see warriors because only people that can see can actually tell if a person is a warrior or not..
and just because a person occasionally seems self-important doesn’t mean they are, or that they are abberated….. Many times Don Juan and Genaro expressed their mastery over certain things.
I think we all need to focus on ‘agreeing’ … or trying to find truth in the most abberated posts….
this is our world on here… we each individually own it…
granted we all may be a bit drunk with the idea we can post or BE whoever we want… we’re all still generally good people.. not ‘trying’ to be dicks…
We’re hardly being impeccable squabbling over mere words or ideas…
What I’m proposing here is that we help anyone and everyone no matter how stupid we may think it is… theres nothing really to lose.
I agree with much of what you’ve said. However, there are a few things I’d like to clarify, and a few things i’d like to have you clarify, so we can better understand each other.
When I say this, it’s because I feel that people sometimes read Carlos’ books and begin to have childlike fantasies about being a nagual and leading a group of warriors. Perhaps, I am too quick to jump to this conclusion, because I have seen it many times on the Internet. And perhaps their intentions may still be positive, and perhaps it is all part of the process of growing and learning for many people to go through this phase. But at the same time, I’m not sure that I should refrain from mentioning it when I see it. Do you feel I’m approaching this in the wrong way? Do you think my assumptions are wrong?
I think this may just be a matter of semantics. I realize each time that I say the word “childish” and “mature” that they may be taken the wrong way. Maybe I should find better terms to express what I’m meaning. I think it’s the ultimate accomplishment to be completely child-like and yet completely mature and refined. Yes, impeccable.
Children watch a movie then run around pretending to be the person in the movie, a superhero or whatever. But I feel that there’s a time when a child realizes that they don’t have to pretend. They can be the superhero. But they have to take actions to reach the superhero level. And that’s when maturity begins. By maturity I don’t mean being a stuffy, serious older person, but a warrior who lives the fantasy rather than just fantasizing in their heads.
But I do like your suggestion of replacing the word maturity with impeccability. It is much more appropriate.
I agree, but at the same time would like not to shy away from little squabbles, or dissagreement as they occur. In other words, I for a long time was for the most part, very non-confrontational. But the main reason for that was timidity on my part. I think it takes impeccability to be able to critize and take critisism gracefully. I certainly am not always the most graceful, but for me I believe it is part of a process of becoming more refined and impeccable to be able to go through this.
So please feel free to tell me if you ever feel that I am wrong, or what in particular you feel my abberations may be. I would love to hear the views of others. Gracias!
Hello Enso�±ar;
First, please forgive my intrusion, and thanks for being present here and letting me find this beautiful place.
I’ve spent a few hour here today and tremendously enjoyed the wisdom and honesty i found.
I stopped reading just before the last two. I think that your last posting demonstrates the reason for Secrecy, the title of this thread. I know how much energy i waste when i try to explain/defend myself (my actions and ideas). Most of the time it’s futile and only serves the remnants of my self importance. I’m not exactly right, because as much as i cannot care less what other people think about me, when i communicate with my daughters, i will do whatever it takes to make sure they understand my message. Ans this is probably what you feel and do when you defend/explain your thoughts here. Still, it takes a lot of energy which get lost. When you have secrecy (isolation) you don’t have to waste energy explaining to every stupid ‘policeman’ and or the ‘average normal man’. Wow, that was long; i should have remembered Lao-tse’s “those who talk don’t know, and those who know don’t talk”…
Now i have an important question (for me) to ask you: i remember when reading one of your posts, you mentioned a brief encounter with kung-fu. I am just beginning to learn the Magical Passes (from the book and also the DVD), and read there that Juan Matus recommended Marshall art, and that one of the ladies in his group (or earlier) traveled to the East to study it. I have always been fascinated with marshal art (mostly the discipline and spiritual part of it); do you think that the Magical Passes can substitute entirely kung-fu, Tai-chi-chuan etc? I hope it is, and want your opinion.
amos.
Hi Amos, nice to meet you 🙂
First of all I don’t mind explaining myself in this context. I’m not defending anything. I’m only exchanging ideas with others here who have similar interests. And I would very much like to hear others’ ideas. After all, that’s basically why this forum exists.
On the other hand, about secrecy. I believe there is a possibility that one of the main reasons for secrecy, and erasing personal history is to remove attachment from ideas that are like meaningless cells imprisoning us. And I believe the outcome of fully erasing personal history is freedom.
I feel that we can reach a point when we realize that nothing matters. A point where no one can touch you, even in a sea of people. A point where explanations are as meaningless as everything else and so whatever we do is truly… controlled folly.
To answer your other question, I’m going to quote you in the Tensegrity forum (for organization’s sake)
This is really important issue to me, because time and time again I have banged my head against the wall in all this explaining/defending theme. After all the occasions I have defended my ego in war of words I have always felt myself stupid and rotten human being after the war is over. I have always wondered how on Earth all silly things start to be so damn important. I guess mind can’t tell the difference of words and action. If somebody comes to you and tries to murder you, then it’s ok to defend yourself to the bitter end, but if all that comes to you are mere words, then what is so particularly important in words that one can come so annoyed…?
I can’t go on living hating people, hating myself… Mostly nagualism to me is about behaviour. I don’t know for sure wether there is “freedom”, but do I really have to be this idiot I am? Of course I will always be an idiot, but I want to learn to not take it so seriously.
😆
Hey Lilac;
U’r very sweet and very warrior; part of your sweetness (and stupidity) is that you don’t want, maybe afraid to admit how smart you are, and you are!
I don’t know how old you are, but warriorship is basically getting rid of the junk that ‘they’ have put in our head from the moment we get our mother’s nipple in our mouth. As Juan Matus said, the spirit starts receding then. Very soon we cannot distinguish between nutrishes mother milk and white snake oil. Even if you are older than me i don’t think you have to unlearn as much as i have being raised in a very brainwashing and conditioning society. It took me a very long time to find the truth you mentioned. You are so right; first they ‘teach’ us what is ‘good and bad’ and then, after believing them we become slaves and are controlled by being told that we are ‘good’, “a little nicer than her”, “made a big mistake”, “did a good job”, “only 89% smart”, “total 17% stupid”. “a traitor”. “a terrorist” etc etc. Look how a guy that calls himself the pope, was able to create so much wasted energy in the hearts of so many from the ‘other’ group, only of what he said about their pope (or something)…
I’m so happy that you’ve realized, but for me, it was only the beginning of a very very hard and long road to really feel and live it. It is not easy to forget your mother tongue and this is exactly the same. Let me give you one of my examples. It took me some time, but i realized the stupidity of my former profession (airline pilot) and how pilots are engaged so much in self glorifying. I used at that point, when not on duty, to take off my tie and jacket and pretend i was a ‘regular’ person; BUT, i carried the jacket on my arms and made sure that the sleeve with the four golden stripes of a captain, will be visible…
We built the prison in our heads with a very tall and thick walls. Even worse is who we put as a warden, the most effective and meanest – our ego.
You see, i got this stupid habit of talking and talking and talking, it’s worse than having sex, i cannot stop or control it; but, i’m getting better and better, and i think the main reason for getting better, is by not worrying about it, who cares.
You’ll see, as u said, the more you’ll diminish your ego the stronger you’ll feel; no body can hurt you; let them talk, they talk in a very stupid language which is not yours anymore; you cannot and don’t want to understand it anymore.
How is Finland in the winter?
Tee hee… It’s quite easy to be smart and still not be wise… Wise people act as they preach, I only put words together and look I’m a guru…
For some time now I have wondered what is this strong urge in me to be Somebody. When I really start to think that it doesn’t matter what people think and say about me and what they say right at to my face, there’s always this strange thing: “but I have to make them sure that I’m special, able, smart, a good writer… what ever…” If I just try to think THE HELL WITH THEM ALL, I always start to feel a kind of fear of death. I can’t really explane it! My reason tells me that amongst all these billions of people I can’t possible have any meaning as a human being or as a living being, and still… Still there’s that ego whining about BE THIS BE THAT DON’T LET ME DIE.
Yes, it’s a nightmare.
***
Luckily it’s not winter yet… I live in southern Finland and there are still green and yellow leaves in trees. Beautifull.
When I was child the temperature at winter could be as low or lower as -20 degrees of Celcius, but it seems winters are getting warmer and warmer over the years. Global warming I guess.
Hey Lilac, don’t drive me crazy. And as our friend Juan told carlos, “you have no right and no time to be impatient!”.
You cannot forget in just a few years what you were taught, conditioned, brainwashed for so many years. For me, one of the most important things with those Mexican guys is their honesty and stories of many how long years it took each one of them to drop the distorted ‘human form’.
You can count on ‘them’, the ‘normal’ people (in cooperation with your ego and old habits) not to let you leave slavery so easily. Ideally you take a break from the normal/average world, and return only when you are strong enough, but it ain’t easy and cheap amymore. I don’t listen to the radio, i have no TV, but it’s hard here in the New York metro area to cut the noise. Every half an hour i have to listen to the church bells coming through my windows etc etc.
I though i got strong enough, but yesterday i sneaked (again) to see the news on the Internet. I read about something very stupid in Israel and i wasted a few hours thinking about it and about what to write on line as my response. I was strong enough this morning to to even go back to that online news.
It’s a constant war with your ego and old habits, learn how to trick your ego and also require new habits so it will be easier to forget the old ones. But as long as you’re aware of it and ask yourself as often as you can “what am i really doing now, and for what/whom?”, then your freedom is guaranteed (it may take a few years, though)
I guess one of the biggest mistakes to do is to think I can do this minor thing and then it will be over. To some that “minor thing” is to have another cigar. To some it’s another glass of alcohol. To some it’s one more comment – this is mostly my own habit in the Net.
But one cigar is never enough, there’s no such thing as “only one glass and then I stop completely”, and certainly there is no “I just say this and I’ll go”.
When I write in English I’m forced to shrink my ideas a lot – they jus’t can’t be told with all the nuances I would have in my mother tongue. This helps me to have some discipline into my brains…
😛
One question after “what I’m really doing now” could be “is this really necessary”. If the answer is “no” and there are buts after that, then it’s indulgence.
sounds like youre bullshittting to me.sounds like non existant orgasms to me.
Plus you cant equate the nagual to quantum physics, im sorry, the two arent related. It seems like an intellectualy nice standpoint..bit like CC with the “eagle rule” but im sorry the two arent the same.
Plus quantum physics is largely unknown to the west, i mean alot of it is still philosophical speculation, so the west have no power over it.
i mean yes at the moment our consciousness affects the outcome of an event. Therefore perception based from the piont of view of consciousness (being time honoured) affects the outcome (nature of the universe.) People still have no idea what happens with the two slit (youngs-go ask your physics teacher) experiment, try slowing down a photon of light and see how it behaves..opps try again logical scientific people. I think it one of themost important and insiring points that carlos points out is that perception is subjective, and if youre considering on a quantum level, (yes we’re aiming at a description of “‘reality'” (notice double indentation!) human peception alters the nature of the experiment ..ie properties and expected behavour of “matter” of the universe then perception and awareness are key components that largely escape scientific or logistically viable explainations.
my personal viewpoint is that- i dont know, i think that scientifically cc steps out as a scientific empirical viewpoint esp in his first book, however he doesnt keep to strict empirical parameters, doesnt explain phemoneological importantly, and i guess its important cc always comes from a social scientific background rather than say, a logical empiricists point of view. this doesnt take away value of his so called findings, “”separate reality.” to me though.
I think its cool to say for example to equate the existance of dark matter with the nagual for example. The reason why the universe seems to be expanding rather than slowing down as expected. Ideas include abundance of neutrinos, or an increased amount of bayronic matter in early universe expansion,..gravity waves, (no ones detected this theoretical particle, although it should exist- theyve put up a satellite for this, so well see.) and the important mass of the Tau neutrino as experiments recently show there is evidence if chance of error in its mass.
its also nice to draw parallels with M theory (theory of everything) we’re talking the basis if the wests logic here. science being a tool. with DJ quotes of infinate lines of energy (String theory??) if you want to- although this may not bring about a more engaged state of our interation with the nature of the universe (reality.)
another thing is that they say we are a holgraphic projection of the universe based on p branes and m branes, yeah i can imagine equating that to the nagual in my head. to me it seems difficult to equate this to a macroscopic level to a biological awareness ie human. although essentialy the forces and nature of the matter involved are the same. (ontological.)
I wonder if say on an engeretic level if one becomes awareness, say for example, without consciousnness one would engege in the action of percieving “‘seeing'”
any opinions??
I’ve read about that measuring the movement of particles alters the behaviour of the particles. But never have I really thought about this with the ideas of the placement of the assemblage point and possibilities to perceive the world in many ways and on many levels.
Holographic model and fractals are my favourites, but I don’t get into them at the moment, maby later if something worth sharing comes into my mind.
chaos theory is basic really, it just shows how some large scale systems still have an underlying order. (Google in “Lorentz waterwheel”)
Indent: Appparently there is this like top scientist whos getting paid millions just to empty a bottle of tomatoe ketchup. As scientists want to know how this substance behaves (Chaos theory) as they need to predict is behavior for uses in nuclear fusion.
fractals are interesting to as they bear the same appearences as computers when they try to map memory (ie consciousness.) Also some people say they see fractal patterns when taking LSD or MDMA or Mushrooms. maybe they are somehow realted in some pseudo (Or non pseudo?!!) way.
Good question. I’m secretive for the wrong reasons, always have been. But I do see how that can be benificial when you don’t want distractions. Lately I’ve come to the understanding that what I’m doing, and will continue to do, is something with no parallel in terms of discipline, fortitude, balance and sheer purpose. It’s also my understanding (i could of course be wrong) that the Rule no longer applies to us. CC and his party broke secrecy and in doing that changed the energetic parameters of the drive for freedom. So for me secrecy really has no pragmatic value in the sense that how would that increase my chances at freedom. I guess in a sense CC and the witches paid that price for all of us. Besides, I don’t feel like getting burnt at no stake,, thank you very much 😆
This quote popped up on the Cleargreen site today:
Shamans keep nothing to themselves. To empty themselves in this fashion is a shaman’s maneuver. It leads them to abandon the fortress of the self.
~The Active Side of Infinity
No one has brought up (i think) the purpose of secrecy. First, the sorcerers of ancient Mexico had to protect themselves in some way from the Spaniards. To teach openly, practices that contradict Christianity would have meant death to them. For around 500 years secrecy had to happen, not because of a self-important reason, but to preserve their lives! Now how much courage did Dr. Castaneda have in breaking the secrecy! He deserves credit for creating the atmosphere of more openness that we are able to operate in. We might not be talking to each other if it was not for him.
In today’s age, the use of secrecy has changed and yet it has not. Would y’all tell everyone that you are stalking them? You’d probably get some restraining orders against you! It’s use now is based on the same intent as the old sorcerers. It’s protection. We are threatening to everyone who operates as a part of society. And when we do interact with them, do you want to be responsible for potentially screwing them up? To teach someone, i think the Spirit needs to intervene. And from personal experience, if you talk about this stuff to the average man without knowing what you’re talking about, you are just wasting air, arguing without any real knowledge. I found myself talking about self-reflection to someone i just met 2 weeks ago and i have never been more articulate or forceful. i might have actually gotten through to him! But the reason i talked to him about it was because i was inspired to do so. With him, i wasn’t quite secretive, but not quite open. You just can’t talk to people about energy…directly.
I think one of the main issues with secrecy that I’m speaking about is regarding erasing personal history. Erasing personal history as far as I can see requires that one be quite secretive on many fronts. It requires that one avoid and dissapear from the “past” that one is attempting to erase, and it also requires one to be secretive about that “past” to those who are in the present field of attention.
In general at the moment I still see no way of avoiding this. More times than not, acting in this manner is intensly enjoyable, but at other times it can be difficult, confusing, and somewhat cumbersome.
Thoughts?
My current task it seems has been re-arranging how I view my past. The past for my is the boogey man. I keep it in a ground vault, under lock and key with 24 hr servalaince. And just in case someone tries to break in from the outside I installed motion sensors with automated lasers. Literally.
I’ve been walking away from people all my life, erasing that part of my personal history was no problem. But in my present field of attention doing it effectively has proved alot more difficult. I don’t understand how to do it effectivly. Or maybe I’m just not ready to give up that facet of my reflection. Yet.
So how did you literally install a motion sensor with lasers to protect your past? 😉
i too have been walking away from people all my life. Schoolmates, friends, who are just a point in time. They never could get their hooks into me. i was very slippery to them. Unless they come to me, i will probably never see them again.
Here’s a way to erase personal history. Just an example, vary it as appropriate to your situation. When you’re overhearing a conversation between 2 women you are friendly with about, say, the disgusting habit of jerking off. Interject and tell them that you jerk off often. The awkwardness of the silence after you say that is indescribable!
So about 4 days after my last post in this topic, i ended up meeting someone who has dealings with energy and we talked openly about it. i…was…shaking.