[the_ally]

i agree 100%, hey i have been thinking latly. When i get back to the u.s. i really want to grown my own salvia. I am hoping i can form a better relationship with the spirit of the plant if i grown it and take care of it on my own instead of just buying it at a store or over the internet. my ultimate goal would to have to plant produce seeds and replant those seeds to create a new strain. any camments or suggestions?

[DrakeWan]

Great idea... although it is VERY hard to get it to produce seeds... almost impossible..

clones are the only way to really get er going..

but do lots of reading before you attempt it.. so you can give her the environment she deserves and wants.

[Chipola_english forum]

I take offense to ANYONE who says that taking any kind of entheogenic substance, or any psychedelic substance is a short-cut... that is utter BS. Only people afraid of them say that kind of shit...

I dont see that object in my declaration (shit), maybe is more easy find it with a strange substance inside the body.

Try looking with your EYES! and listening with your ears... because everything has a way of communicating with you, and different plants when ingested can give you a great understanding of its view-point and relationship with the world thru its eyes.

In your argument I read a contradiction, first you say I must try to use my senses, and for the another hand differents plants give me a lot of great understanding thru his eyes.

I insist, is very hard the use of perceptive senses without drugs, logically is more hard the use of perceptive senses with altered counciessnes via artificial method.

only clowns who like to act like a character think they are short-cuts because thats what they were looking for

Is more clown a contradiction in an argument, don't you think so?

[DrakeWan]

okay so I came off a bit harsh..

but still ..

if you don't learn your senses for all they are and can be than you are lacking..
They open your minds eye and allows you to view things in a very different manner, making you much more aquainted with the world inside of you and outside of you.

[ensonar]

Oh drugs are definitely a "short-cut". That doesn't mean that taking them is easy, and it doesn't mean that you can't learn anything from taking them. But they are only perhaps a way to crack through thick headed people, which most of us are. However, without someone who is truly experienced to guide us we are also mostly guiding oursleves through our own self reflection. So how much we actually learn is questionable, and depends VERY much on the individual who chooses to use them.

And of course, drugs of any sort do in fact damage the body. Not necessarily irreparable damage (depending on how much they've been used), but often drugs cause a depletion of energy that then has to be regained in one way or another.

If you have a strong belief in the need for saving and storing energy in order to sustain an intended shift of the assemblage point, you often will learn to save it in any way that you can. Depleting it through taking drugs or any other energy draining activity becomes a feeling of waste.

I believe that aiming for inner-silence is a much more useful and worthy effort.

[the_ally]

Great idea... although it is VERY hard to get it to produce seeds... almost impossible..

clones are the only way to really get er going..

but do lots of reading before you attempt it.. so you can give her the environment she deserves and wants.

i plan to do ton of reading before i start, and i know how hard it is for her to produce seeds, but i would like to think that if i were to treat her as best as possibile and form a stong connection she would make it possible to get new seeds from her, and with those new seeds, a new unique part of her.

[joyseph]

I smoked salvia one time ... well before I read any CC. I was never any kind of user, and so this was a rare experiment on my part. Anyway, I thought I was getting really tall and I was afraid my head would fall off. It scared me. When I read about the two perspective thing much later in The Power of Silence I immediately remembered my salvia experience.

I don't know if I want to do it again. I'll only say, "possibly."

By the way, it's not as if CC ever gave a catalogue (to my knowledge) of everything that don Juan included in his little smoke mixture. It's obvioulsy well-accepted that the mushroom was included, but mightn't he have used salvia in the mix?

joyseph

[Chipola_english forum]

Maybe is more easy: drugs are drugs

Eric Van Lustbader in the Book Ninja write a paragrafh about the use of drug by a ninja warrior.

And yes, for me no doubt and any problems. Drugs dont works for me, even if Castaneda write about them.

And I dont see any reference of tonalamatl in Castaneda works.

[joyseph]

anyway, every 60's guy who started out espousing drugs as a "path" eventually just said "No." CC did, Alan Watts did ...

... who else?