[Lilac]

When I first read about the flyers from The Active Side of Infinity I was a little disappointed. I have always been fond of an idea that we all human beings are supposed to be responsible about everything that comes from our ego. That is the ideal situation to me that we wouldn't blame any imagined creature like a devil or satan about our misbehavings. I'm quite against religions, and I have felt at peace with nagualism thinking that there is no such things as "demons" or "angels", only beings and forces we don't understand and like to think they are evil or good.

Now that there could be a creature, a flyer, who comes into us as a foreign installation and I have understood that it mainly IS the ego in us all, that makes me feel that once again there is a thing we can blaim and so we can imagine we aren't resbonsible about a thing we do or say. Luckily, if one truly believes in a flyer, there's atleast always the task of getting rid of the foreign installation...

It also makes me wonder that trough all the CC's books there's no mention about these things and suddenly they are mentioned in the last book.

:unsure:

[ensonar]

The flyers were a bit hard to grasp or believe at first, and perhaps maybe that's why they were saved for the final book. But that is just a speculation.

Then again, when I first read Tales of Power, I found much of it hard to believe, and I, like many people, took it to be mostly metaphors used to help people learn. But then a friend who I had looked up to for a long time said to me, "How do you know it's not true? This world is mysterious and amazing, and to assume that what we already know is all there is to infinity, is just plain dumb." From that point on, I kept reading, and opened myself more and more to the possibility that there is much MUCH more to infinity.

But in the case of flyers, why is it so far-fetched that we have to think of it in terms of a satanic evil metaphor? I mean we battle viruses every time cold season comes around don't we? Everywhere we look there are predators and prey. When we are attacked by a virus, we are aware of it because we obviously become sick. And so we do whatever we can to fight it off. But with flyers, many people are aware that they are ill, because we are constantly hungry for something, depressed about something, or just never satisfied. We are constantly craving food, sex, drugs, whatever. But we never have been confronted with the possibility that there may be more to it than just our own weakness.

The seers made references to flyers keeping us in human "coops" in the same way that we keep chickens in chicken-coops. These chickens don't realize that they are being kept and raised for food. They just enjoy the easy food and shelter that they constantly have. Perhaps now and then a chicken longs for what is beyond the fence, but once the farmer comes out with more seed the same chicken will run over and start gobbling it up.

The fact that flyers may be really here, keeping us in a subdued state doesn't in any way change the fact that we are still responsible for reaching freedom outside of our human coops. Maybe we just need to quit gobbling up the "seed" that is constantly in front of us.

[Lilac]

Viruses, yes, and parasites... That makes sense: if a physical body can have all those things, then why couldn't there be those kind of things for the energy body too. That way it's more like a plain and neutral possibility and nothing about bad old religion and evil. Thanks!

All my life I've been quite sensitive to an inner feeling of emptines, always feeling something missing. Is something missing - a part from my energy body? Interesting idea.

[DrakeWan]

I would like to comment on your statement... quit gobbling up the seed infront of us...

I read something into that that perhaps you didn't intend but none-the-less...

We as people like to take ancient knowledge... we love it....

But what is really ancient is as new as a babies bottom, the time is irrelevant.

The place where this becomes a problem is.... new teachers... or new 'reality' seers

We tend to squabble against them... mostly because its hard to distinguish them.
but we don't listen to anyone who is living... there are in a sense no leaders... just like in a party of sorcerers, there is a leader even if they don't act like it.
We are a people who live on Bullshit.... and most of the time we are too busy trying to make sure everyone else is full of our bullshit that we never do anything.
and the problem with communication is, that most of the time, no one is every listening... we are all just trying to make sure everyone else is 'on the right path' meanwhile, its just a plate full of shit.
Most people need to eat the shit they already have infront of them, they don't need someone elses plate full of shit to add to their own....
Its like sitting at a dinner table... give people what they ask for... and sometimes with a mouth full of shit its hard to say what you want so you have to use body language to point at the items you so desperately need to wash the shit out of your own mouth.

I want to make this clear.. this is not directed at anyone... it is just an observation of human-kind... I lump myself in with the shit eaters.. so don't worry, we all have a shit eating grin on our faces.

[Jin]

Can u see flyer ?

First time i came face-to-face with it was, when one evening i went to bed early, but woke up in few hours (around 23:00) and saw a shadow in front of me. ( at that time I was exparimenting with dark room effect (closed up all windows and doors, so no light would enter the room) I was trying to identify my hand as a field of energy, when there is no visual projection of them and with eyes closed, with some good results)
My Tonal went nuts, thinking out all possiobilities from someone walking in without me hearing him, to inorganick beeings, angels or death.
i had a panic for 2-3 min. and the it went away.
I had such a terror that for few days couldn't sleep with light out and removed all light blocking obsticles.
However timeing is what made even more surprising, next day I reached the part where CC introduced term flyer (I was reading material from http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/ printed out of A4rs)
At that time i was ocasionaly also taking mushroom trips and had my first encounters with other inorganic beeing.
what actualy are gates of dreaming ? Maybe throught induction of other - higher level inorganick beeings flyers retreats ? And thouse beeings guide of for our evolution ?

[Lilac]

I think I want to be quite neutral with this flyer-issue, but it game into my mind that what if...

I think I was about 6-8 years old when I was once alone in our house, and suddenly I realized that people do actually die. I felt like jumping to the walls, literally. Later I cried to my mother and she said that everybody dies. (Oh how comforting...)

Well, I guess every child about that age realizes that, but that wasn't enough of panic about dying. As an adult I have occasionally woken up in the middle of the night feeling awful. In those occasions I never remember any dream, it's like I've been in coma... And then suddenly I just feel full panic and would like to screem. If I try to think what the hell is going on, all I can get into my mind is an idea about my body decaying when I'm still inside it and aware.

I've had all kind of theories about those night horrors. If one could be that I can sense the flyer coming into me, so be it - one more theory.

Now that I think about it, why so many people fear that there is a boogey man under the bed, or that their bodies are stolen when they are in sleep?

Just lately I woke up in the morning and saw with the corner of my eye something flying away from me, but aren't flyers supposed to fly toward people, not away from them? So possible this was something else.

If these flyers are to be taken seriously, then I have one very interesting question: are we free of them when we are dreaming, and are we slaves to them only when we operate in the daily world?

[Jin]

i think after some gates are opened they can't touch us in our dreams, or maybe they apear as sombody or something in your dreams - I had many dreams, when i had to fight some entities (at first aparing as human, but when you touch them, faces change to somehow monstreous) that wouldn't let me go, i couldn't change dreams or fly away from the room, it took me some time to overcome it

[Lilac]

I'm quite uneasy about people touching me, and in dreams touching gets even more annoying. One of the worst happenings was once when a creature having human kind of shape cling on to me like a bubblegum. It was greyish white and had no face, only head, torso and limbs. (Wasn't Dreaming, though, just a dream.)

Also I tend to have quite a few dreams where my family members are kind of evil, sometimes they even want to have sex with me. Always this same old shit that creatures in dreams just have to get close to me, and I don't want them near me.

[Jin]

i have similar things about family (btw DJ wrote that 3rd kind of inorganick beeings usaly mask as our close ones)
and same for sex, I used to do it often in Lucid dreaming, but it wastad a lot of energy, now i'am staying away from it, allthough sometimes I engage in it, stop and fly away - sex now is a kinda lucidity trigger for me (same for flying or meting certain people (probably inorg. beings)) , since i don't remember to look at my hands it helps, thought maybe it's becouse sex been absent from my life for many years

[Merged]

Hello, Id like to say I also noticed the Flyers were not mentioned unitl the big creshendo ending in Active Side. He really showed himself as developing into a great writer with that last book and how he laid it out very plainly with the sorc rule and all.BUT; Ive been reading CC since 1989 when I was brousing through a prison library in Tacoma, Washington looking for something to read and I found "A Separate Reality." Since then I've read every CC book 12 times. One issue had in the beginning was at night while sleeping 2 things that were very concrete and real started to happen ( I was not using drugs or alcohol at the time) One was in the middle of the night I would be awakened by a sense that I was floating away and burning up at the same time(I would appreaiate any feedback on this one) And second that something was visiting me at night that sounded electrical, buzzing, and floated on the ceiling and scared the crap out of me. I mean scared shitless. The sound of it made me sick to me stomach. SO I moved back to Ohio from washinton state and low and behold im sleeping in my new apartment and what do you think starts happening within days? The same 2 occurances. I feel it worth mentioning that these 2 occurances did not stop until i started drinking alcohol again. I couldnt sleep with the lights off for years. I told everyone it was from being in jail and it was never dark there so I liked it that way after i got out.I just finished a novel called "The Devil of Riesling" anyone that would like a copy send me and email. Mark