[BratscheWarrior]

True, it doesn't really matter. i think a discussion on what makes a leader great would be interesting though.

[ensonar]

Well then... what do you think makes a great leader? Have there really been any in your opinion? If so, who?.. and why?

[Lilac]

Thinking about all the situations in the CC's books where there happened seeing by somebody, I have thought that seeing doesn't really mean one is a leader (a Nagual). Didn't - or doesn't - every warrior see sometimes? (La Gorda crossed her eyes and saw... etc.)

I think that seeing is about seeing visions (about places, people, situations) and/or inner knowing. I don't think seeing is about having "a great vision" for the whole life or for the world - that's all just day dreaming. I guess writers are quite good at day dreaming.

I have seen visions when I was younger. But because I don't have the ability to see at will, that doesn't really mean much. And everything that I've seen is either stricly personal or oddidies without the slightest clue what it's supposed to mean.

Personally I don't understand what is so important or fascinating in leaders. I think it's quite booring to try to find out who has been a leader type and who has not - we have our responsibilities for ourselves. Let everybody else be this or that or not be. They are all gone, or if they are still living, most of them is going to the wrong direction anyway. Not to the freedom, but to the Biggest Ego there can be.

[ensonar]

Personally I don't understand what is so important or fascinating in leaders. I think it's quite booring to try to find out who has been a leader type and who has not - we have our responsibilities for ourselves. Let everybody else be this or that or not be. They are all gone, or if they are still living, most of them is going to the wrong direction anyway. Not to the freedom, but to the Biggest Ego there can be.

I agree, and yet I do believe that intent may have a guiding nature. Like Don Juan mentioned on several occasions, we don't need anything but the spirit. And as such, the spirit or intent seems to be a guiding force.

And also, I believe that as a being eliminates self importance and loses the human form, they become less human, and more spirit. And because of this I feel that humans can still become guiding forces in a very abstract way.

It is one thing to romanticize reaching that position... the romanticization is very obviously based soley on self-importance. But from a position of no-self, that romanticization isn't possible. In fact, considering it one way or another probably doesn't even occur. Such a being just moves like the wind in whatever direction intent drives them.

The Tao Te Ching mentions leadership in many of its chapters. I believe it is touching on the same thing. A saying such as, 'a great leader is one who's community is unaware of their leadership' [paraphrased]... is one example.