Death
Death is not an event that exists in some future.
Death is a warrior’s constant companion.
Death is Carlos taking notes.
That may sound poetic, but it’s a fact that happens to sound poetic.
It isn’t Life then Death.
It’s Life/Death – an inseperable pair.
Life springs from its source: Death.
Death springs from its source: Life.
Love it, hate it, respect it, fear it… it doesn’t matter.
Nothing you do can change it, alter it, avoid it, or attract it.
It is all there is.
You can’t exist outside of it in order to affect it in any way.
D5 Creation
It’s difficult to speak about anything without agreement on precise definitions. But to get to a point where two people understand eachother requires a lot of time and energy and desire. Here, we talk first and define later. What the hell – I want to say something about death, even though we probably have different definitions of what that means…
In my actual world, we are not beings who are going to die.
Anyone identified with their mind/inventory/thinking/ego is already dead.
We’ve been lied to.
We’re taught that our world of the living exist between hell below and heaven above, but this world (1st att) is a dead hell, the second attention is the world of the living, and the third att might be called ‘heaven’. Hell is actually preferable IMO to this world. At least hell is more honest, more direct – “you are being punished”. Here, on so-called earth, people say ‘I love you’ while they punish you. In hell, a pitchfork in the ass is a pitchfork in the ass; on earth: “do you betray me with a kiss?”. I’ve never been to prison, but I suspect there’s no misrepresentation about whether you’re getting f**ked in the ass or being made love to. Is prison where we hide our honest people? Are criminals defined by their willingness to do what they want even if there are laws and punishments against it? We can’t have that kind of realness in a civilised/domesticated society, can we.
No, I’m not pro-crime. I’m pro-real.
I’m just saying, certain things are real and we’re taught that they’re not, or we’re taught to avoid them, like death, pain, aloneness, emptiness…
Give me pills so I don’t feel the pain.
Give me entertainment so I don’t feel the emptiness.
Talk to me, (or I’ll talk to myself), so I don’t feel alone.
And define living as lungs breathing and heart beating, so I can believe I’m alive.
And let me live in a country that waves a banner of freedom and democracy so I won’t feel my enslavement.
Vanity!
When I see that I’m in hell, there’s something familiar about it.
It’s the same feeling/awareness as death as an adviser.
We are ALL beings that are on their way to dying. To deny this fact is to deny the existence of the energy body. We as warriors/wannabees accept this, living our lives accordingly.
But death is not fair. It is what it is. The taking away of awareness. It can happen at any time. What is even worse is taking the life of another sentient being. Why is it that most people say that it’s ok to kill a man who has murdered another man by strapping him down to a table and injecting chemicals into him? Why is it that doing the same to a sick cat is called humane?
I’m a big Tolstoy fan. I like his views on death and dying. If you haven’t, read the short story Master and Man. It’s about 2 men, a wealthy business owner and his peasant. They travel from their home to the city and ultimately got lost in a horrible snowstorm at night. The peasant makes the best of the situation by lying still, trying to sleep. The businessman can only think of himself, his business and money. He thinks that he is an important man and what will become of the world without him? As he is about to die from exposure, he realizes that none of that matters. What matters is to be in the service of others like his peasant. He then covers the peasant with his body and dies. Since the peasant had his master covering him, he is saved.
I think i’ll post some quotes from Anna Karenina later. Good stuff.
From Anna Karenina:
Levin: “oh well, i never stop thinking about death. It’s quite true that this is just a lot of nonsense. I will tell you frankly: I care a lot about my idea and my work, but, come to think of it, the whole thing, i mean, this whole world of ours is just a speck of mildew grown up on a tiny planet. And we think we can have something tremendous – ideas, actions! It’s all a grain of sand.”
Oblonsky: “But my dear fellow, this is as old as the hills.”
Levin: “Old, yes, but, you know, once you grasp it clearly, everything becomes so insignificant. When you’ve grasped the fact that today or tomorrow you will die and nothing will be left of you, everything becomes so insignificant. I consider my idea very important, but, it to, turns out to be of now more significance, even if it were possible to carry it out, than walking around in this bearskin. And so you spend your life diverting yourself with hunting and work, just not to think of death.”
……”And, you know, there is less charm in life when you think of death, but it’s more peaceful.”
I understand Castaneda’s proposition. But to put death in the future tense is still a way we try to avoid the real, still escapism. As long as you’re someone who is GOING to die, you still have life, you still have hope, you still have the opportunity to act like an ass, like an immortal, because death is not now, it’s tomorrow. If you’re already dead, there’s no need to act like, or to imagine, or to have an adviser – you have the direct experience of death.
As minds, we are already dead. There is nothing in or of the mind that is not the past, the already dead. The mind cannot enter the world of the living, the second att. The second att is the absence of the mind.
If you’re GOING to die, then you must be alive now – you must be in the second att. But you’re not.
Those are my definitions from my experience. They may be different from yours. But they’re based on direct experience and not second-hand knowledge. CC told us that we are beings that are going to die, or we look around and see people dying and INFER that we will one day die. This is second-hand, not direct. My direct experience says I am already dead because the 1st att uses dead mind/knowledge to perceive the world and oneself. The you who is “living” this 1st att is already dead and in hell, but you can call it life if you want to. Let’s call rape ‘love’ while we’re at it… Call whatever what you want. I’m saying to see this as hell and already dead offers more heightened awareness than to see that I am GOING to die.
Don’t you see that it’s a belief? That you are GOING to die HAS TO BE A BELIEF, because it’s not NOW.
Do you prefer beliefs to the actual world?
Ok, so let me ask you this. Do you really think that you won’t be relinquishing your awareness someday? Or are you an immortal being?
Just because we are on this Path, doesn’t mean we are supermen who will never die. Or do you want to live like the old sorcerers and turn into trees?
It seems to me, true, as if maybe you’re just getting caught up in words(?). I am absolutely positive that Carlos not only mentioned that we are beings who are going to die, but also to live as though we are already dead, that way we have nothing to cling to and nothing to lose.
I don’t know. I’m aware now. Why should I BELIEVE that someday I won’t be?
Am I immortal? Depends how you define “I” or “being”.
Can being ever become non-being?
You see, we haven’t defined enough to speak about this, to understand eachother.
Do you equate awareness with life?
You’re jumping around… we haven’t agreed whether “GOING to die” is a belief or not, so how can we keep talking?
I’ve stated that I’m already dead and you ask me if I’m immortal.
So we obviously have different definitions of death. Is it because I can type that you think I’m alive? My body’s not in a grave somewhere….? Is death something that happens to the body, to awareness, to everything? Energy?
There’s just too much to go into, so the simplest way to share here is to read carefully and without knowledge – open-minded.
I’ve given you my definitions in the first post. You’re not accepting them. You’re basically ignoring my post because of your knowledge. But if we go one step at a time, have I said anything untrue? Can you disprove that we as 1st att beings/awareness using the mind/inventory which is all known, all past, is not already dead? It’s pretty obvious to me, but you are brushing over this.
I don’t think, from what I’ve seen, that communication between you and I is possible. I say something and you’re way far away somewhere else hearing something else. I’ve told you I’m already dead and you hear that I’m immortal and a superman??? This shows me you are listening with your knowledge instead of your ears (eyes).
I have no desire to be immortal. But maybe we already are. Time is an odd thing. I don’t know that this moment isn’t an eternity. It certainly feels like I can be present and it will spread into infinity and there will be no thought or awareness of time, no question of immortal or mortal. Immortal and mortal are thoughts/concerns of the mind. They don’t exist when you drop the mind. So how can I say if I am mortal or immortal? How can I measure these things?
You see, they do not concern us directly. The concern of being immortal or mortal is second-hand. It only arises because of seperation from “this”, “source”, “presence”… nagual.
You cannot BE mortal or immortal. You can only BE this now, timeless.
I can’t explain it any better.
Hey Ensonar. Nice to hear from you.
Maybe. But words are so important, and yet not important at all. They describe, pathetically, real things, intent.
“Going to” is an intent of the future, the not now.
“Act as if” means that you’re not!
“Live as though” means you’re not when you are reading intent.
They still imply seperation. The intent behind the words is important. By intent, I don’t mean one’s personal intent, not Carlos’ intent behind his words, but the intent that shapes reality when the word is spoken, consciously or unconsciously – the intent of the word itself.
So can we not be seperate from death?
I guess death is just like immortal – they have no meaning when you leave the context of that world. Death is only a thought, a label.
I’m lost. I have no reference.
Silence again.
Thank you both for talking with me. Maybe I don’t belong here… maybe I’m not CC oriented. I thought I was. Maybe I am. Maybe it has evolved beyond what I expected.
What concerns me is the actual world, the world that is when the mind is not. So if Castaneda’s system fits that I’m fine. If it doesn’t, I have to throw it out. I can’t adhere to second-hand knowledge or I become a believer instead of a realist, a man of action. So for me all the teachings have to be inventoried in this way – can I directly experience/perceive that, or is it a belief. And i have to discard beliefs to find what I truly am, what is essential and true.
Perhaps you don’t and perhaps none of us do. Do I have a choice but to be here, where else am I, or would I be? Am I here to listen to others, to laugh at them, to cry with them or just to feel sorry for them and myself? Why are any of us here and what do we expect. It has come into my mentation that expectation is itself a rogue spook, placed like a road sign that is telling us of what is in store along the road. But being a road sign it does not hold this knowledge it just reflects the knowledge that has been assigned to it. It depends upon how the creator of the sign set it up. However, anyone else can come along and turn it around, and does this change the names of the destinations it points towards, or is the sign just wrong?
Not wanting to get caught in metaphorical storm walking this path, I appreciate seeing others along the road, when they appear. It is these gentle folk or, sometimes (and some would say, unluckily) out and out bandits, that adds dynamism to the journey. They reflect something within myself that has no destination nor goal, they are more reliable than the road signs, because reading them requires I read myself and learn the language of identity. And soon might I realise that I too am a road sign walking the path, and have been directing others totally unaware of the destinations I point towards.
Maybe you are not CC orientated, maybe you thought you were, and maybe you are. You have probably evolved beyond your expectations, however your words are inspiring and I take great delight in reading them. They are reliable pointers. I am still walking the road and can see the shadow of a signpost before me, but I am not dead yet, I still think I am this person etc… I still read others signposts perhaps out of laziness, sometimes out of wonder. Your sobriety does not go unnoticed.
Thanks Wall.
I enjoy our repartee true. And we do differ on our beliefs and definitions. i’ve been given mine based on experience dealing mostly with people. i dismiss the bumblings of the scum that is the average man. They make this place into the hell you describe. But i am very much alive. i possess awareness. i acknowledge that i will someday relinquish that awareness and will go back to that void whatever it is. Maybe i’ll achieve total freedom before that, maybe not.
Here’s a little nugget for you about me. Like i said before, my posts about the average man are from experience. i interact with a lot of people as part of my job. And i do my stalking thing with them. They don’t know who i am. i am a being with many personalities. They wouldn’t like the personality i chose most of the time even though it comes out from time to time with them.
Before i figured all this out for myself, i had another being tell me all this stuff (and still telling me). Can’t call him a teacher for various reasons (well, one big reason), but i was given this information as to expect that i would encounter certain situations. Before i figured out all this stuff that i post about, i believed without enough direct experience so my words were not backed up. Foolish me. Now i talk about what i know, preferably directly and with little frills. i don’t aim to be clever with my words. Efficiency is where it’s at.
And apparently i’ve been told that i’ve been on this path longer than i’ve come to believe.
i like your road sign metaphor wall. A great post.
True, you seem a bit depressed these days. i think we all go thorough this. The ebb and flow of our path, realizing that our numbers are few and that most of the people we meet are travelers going the opposite way on a sinking ship. And dealing with them helps us on our quest to overcome false boundaries set for us and to find mastery over ourselves.
What else is there?
I have been depressed. I’m alone. I don’t know anyone that knows what I know… I don’t mean knowledge. I mean I don’t know anyone that lives in the actual world, awake. And my own awakening has smashed my dreams so I can’t go back, not that I want to. The Matrix movie is an apt description. I really thought I had some good noodles, and now it’s all gone. But I don’t get to wake up on a ship with others who see like me and believe in me and love me. I’m just alone.
Now I’m even more depressed. <_< But that's cool. It's my emptying out process. It's funny, sometimes I'm so happy and free, and the same things/reasons that make me happy and free make me sad and alone. Bizzare. I miss relationship, my female companion. Even though it was a lie, dems was sum good noodles. 😉 The truth is taking everything from me. The actual experience of being set free isn't as romantic as it sounds. "And the truth shall set you free!" "Yeah, that's what I want! I want to be free! We should all be free." lol! No one truly wants to be free. But some of us have it thrust upon us. I don't know about having one chance to grab that bird of freedom... I swear that fuckin' buzzard grabbed me. And now it's eating me alive (eating me to life??).
Here is a crash-course or summary of J. Krishnamurti. But if you “look” without your mind, you’ll see these are not K’s teachings – these are things that anyone who looks without mind will see. So try not to think of this as his or my personal view. There’s nothing personal about it:
People have experiences.
Experience produces knowledge.
Knowledge produces images.
Knowledge/Images replace actuality.
So we can see this in your post. You say we have beliefs and definitions (knowledge). You say they’ve been given you by experience.
This knowledge becomes images – “bumblings”, “scum”, “average”, “hell”.
So now you, we, interact with our images instead of actual people, the actual world.
That means you’re dead. You’re interacting with a dead world, dead knowledge.
All knowledge is dead because all knowledge must be known and therefore
must be the past and static. The knower, which is dead, is interacting with its known images, which are dead.
So the definition I am giving, based on direct perception, is that when one interacts with their image of, say their girlfriend/wife, then they are not interacting with the present reality, but with their own mind/knowledge/past.
To live is to be without images, to interact with the present living world as it is, without knowledge. The girlfriend must be a complete mystery that can never be known. The moment something becomes known, it is dead/static. The knower in you is already dead/static.
There is nothing in this post that can be argued. It is all extremely clear and obvious to anyone who looks.
I am bonded in affections, sharing time and place with a female companion. There is history and there are tithes. There are graces and virtues, blame and misgivings… reflection and projections. Each time there is talk of the future I cannot embark, instead I prefer to remind her of time and place. Who am I fooling? Each time there is expectation, I re-iterate the emptiness it carries with it. When met by manipulative emotional play that drinks from past habits I meditate upon stone. Touched by a moment, I smile and laugh – always careful not to hold it too tightly, not to cling – aware it could break from its tethers at any moment. Am I so fooled that my indulgence has sought refuge in nay-saying continuance and security, in denying closeness in fear of stumbling from the path of freedom? Yet closeness is here, happiness is here, more real for not relying on the future perhaps, for acknowledging in the realm between life and death there is no beginning without end?
I hesitate to think too deeply. When the mind is absent; there is no choice about these things, as it is already chosen. There is no escaping duality but to indulge in it too strongly feels like a trap? These are ramblings, falling on wet sand – they may be washed away as the tide passes. To fall on wet cement may take longer to break away from as time plays out its melodies in sequence… bar upon bar and skin upon skin.
When, as now, I see myself looking for confirmation in a world of mystery; the needle is the haystack (and disappears). A realisation tells me that truth cannot be taken it can only be served; how then can I serve without need of confirmation of who it is that I am serving, if not myself? Clean the public toilets a teacher told me. Ramble on you crazy diamond…
The way I have come to see death is that it is the force of change. All knowledge has death as its central motivator because every bit of knowledge gained changes us. Every time we learn something new from direct experience we die and are reborn.
That is why warriors use death as their advisor. Death actually tells us that we are alive because we are constantly changing. Hardship results in fighting against change, fighting against death through fear.
Death/change is all around. To embrace death is to truly live.
“Death”…….an interesting subject. Unfortunately to many people, it’s a misunderstood concept (much present company excepted).
In my belief system, one of the reasons that I’m here, is to remind us (to remember) as a living example that Death is a reality and it’s all around us. Part of the energy that surrounds us, is connected to what we are now referring to as death (here in this string). To me, death is not a concept, not a theory, not a black hole and not a place where loved ones are lost to us.
Two years ago (August 2006), I died (twice) as the result of injuries sustained in an accident. I was comatose for quite awhile, so I have no reference to our time frame and I can’t say exactly when this occurred, but at one point my consciousness awoke and my dear deceased mother took me to a meeting with God (The Source).
My interaction was deeply personal and I’ll skip over that aspect of the experience. However, I think it’s important to convey the fact that I was completely concsious and cognitive……………and importantly, I wasn’t just visiting. I had the opportunity and option to remain there (in that reality) or to return to this…….what we call life (this reality). I was not given the option to transcend back-and-forth between the two, but I get the strong impression (and it’s my opinion) that it is possible as a learned skill (for lack of a better word, I’ll just say “Skill”)……..but that wasn’t the purpose of my conscious presence there.
Oh BTW, my death didn’t hurt……the lights didn’t go out……and it wasn’t scary.
What I experienced wasn’t at all like some experiences that I’ve read about. It wasn’t a beautiful green place with flowers and winged Angels playing harps. To me, what I experienced, was a place of profound energy. Some of us may have heard stories of the almost proverbial stereo typical “Near Death Experiences”…….and “going to the bright light”……….well, when I awoke, my mother and I went toward the brightest horizon conceivable……..it pales any natural bright sunrise or sunset. What I saw wasn’t a bright light at all, it was much greater than any light…………..it took up an entire horizon, Anyway, I think that the brightness was my visual representation of the energy within that reality.
Hey, but what do I know……..? Hell, in all fairness I gotta tell ya that I’m just a brain damaged wacko with a condition called “Cognitive Deficient”. Yeah, my cage got rattled pretty good in the accident and it left me with a different perspective and perception………..and please understand that I’m still coming to terms with it.
My $.02 on the subject.
Regards all,
Remember (Bill)