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The Nagual Castaneda
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ryan Sin conexión
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The Nagual Castaneda
I like that.
20-Apr-2007 07:17 PM
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ryan Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #42
The Nagual Castaneda
I like that.
20-Apr-2007 07:17 PM
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OldDog Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #43
The Nagual Castaneda
I was wondering if this topic is taboo – guess not.

They got me twice! (Disillusionment). A year or two ago I was reading the CC books yet again and had no problem believing him. I got very excited and started searching the internet for any articles I could find about CC. Then I found Sustained Action. Boom! my childlike faith was crushed and I got very depressed and angry. I gave up and became a consumer of entertainment - anything to distract myself from my empty heart. Smoking weed daily, drinking, getting fatter, X-box and movies were my life.

Months ago I got fed up with my life again. I started reading CC again. I find them to be very inspirational end empowering. Forgot all about my prior disillusionment and I got very excited. I started searching the internet for any articles about CC. Then I found Sustained Action again. Started reading the articles and started to remember that I’ve done this all before. Boom, crushed again! Thank you SA! (sarcasm)

This time I reacted differently. On the one hand, after reading the evidence, I believed that CC misled everyone and that all he wrote could be false. On the other hand, I could not deny the positive influence CC has had on my life. I had got physically fit, quit smoking & drinking, dramatically reduced my zombie like reaction to entertainment. In short, my will power went through the roof.

So I asked myself how could I resolve this contradiction. I did not want to build my house on sand but so much of what CC wrote felt true. Things like inner silence, intention and personal power felt very true to my heart. I felt these things were rocks I could build a strong foundation on. I also need inspiration and encouragement. I shook off my fear and started reading what the critics of CC had to say. Some contend that CC took ideas from others and combined them. I was heartened by this; after all if others can testify to similar ideas then it was far more likely that they may have merit.

So for now I believe because I need to believe & I believe without believing.

I cling to nothing so I will have nothing to defend

Cita:Excerpts from: Conjuring Brujos: Did don Juan and don Genaro Exist?
by Sandy McIntosh and Randy Stark

http://sustainedaction.org/Explorations/...brujos.htm

BGM (Barbara G. Myerhoff) : No, but at that time nobody had any reason to doubt him, you understand. So many things he said and wrote about seemed so right. One reason people get so upset when you call him a hoaxer is that he teaches in a concrete if allegorical form. His story comes to them as direct experience. Zap! It hits them, and they know it's right.

RdeM (Richard de Mille): It has the certainty of art rather than the dubiousness of fact.

BGM: Exactly. So you are attacking not just him but their own private experience, which has truth value for them. The form he teaches in is essential. It's as important as the content. His allegory. His mirroring. He gives us in a concrete form things we had abstractly conceptualized but didn't know how to articulate or use. He does that beautifully. That's where he's a gifted teacher.

Sorcerers speak of sorcery as a magical mysterious bird, which has paused in its flight for a moment in order to give a man hope and purpose... nagual Elías THE POWER OF SILENCE
10-Sep-2007 01:37 AM
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OldDog Sin conexión
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Mensajes: 60
Registro en: Sep 2007
Mensaje: #44
The Nagual Castaneda
I was wondering if this topic is taboo – guess not.

They got me twice! (Disillusionment). A year or two ago I was reading the CC books yet again and had no problem believing him. I got very excited and started searching the internet for any articles I could find about CC. Then I found Sustained Action. Boom! my childlike faith was crushed and I got very depressed and angry. I gave up and became a consumer of entertainment - anything to distract myself from my empty heart. Smoking weed daily, drinking, getting fatter, X-box and movies were my life.

Months ago I got fed up with my life again. I started reading CC again. I find them to be very inspirational end empowering. Forgot all about my prior disillusionment and I got very excited. I started searching the internet for any articles about CC. Then I found Sustained Action again. Started reading the articles and started to remember that I’ve done this all before. Boom, crushed again! Thank you SA! (sarcasm)

This time I reacted differently. On the one hand, after reading the evidence, I believed that CC misled everyone and that all he wrote could be false. On the other hand, I could not deny the positive influence CC has had on my life. I had got physically fit, quit smoking & drinking, dramatically reduced my zombie like reaction to entertainment. In short, my will power went through the roof.

So I asked myself how could I resolve this contradiction. I did not want to build my house on sand but so much of what CC wrote felt true. Things like inner silence, intention and personal power felt very true to my heart. I felt these things were rocks I could build a strong foundation on. I also need inspiration and encouragement. I shook off my fear and started reading what the critics of CC had to say. Some contend that CC took ideas from others and combined them. I was heartened by this; after all if others can testify to similar ideas then it was far more likely that they may have merit.

So for now I believe because I need to believe & I believe without believing.

I cling to nothing so I will have nothing to defend

Cita:Excerpts from: Conjuring Brujos: Did don Juan and don Genaro Exist?
by Sandy McIntosh and Randy Stark

http://sustainedaction.org/Explorations/...brujos.htm

BGM (Barbara G. Myerhoff) : No, but at that time nobody had any reason to doubt him, you understand. So many things he said and wrote about seemed so right. One reason people get so upset when you call him a hoaxer is that he teaches in a concrete if allegorical form. His story comes to them as direct experience. Zap! It hits them, and they know it's right.

RdeM (Richard de Mille): It has the certainty of art rather than the dubiousness of fact.

BGM: Exactly. So you are attacking not just him but their own private experience, which has truth value for them. The form he teaches in is essential. It's as important as the content. His allegory. His mirroring. He gives us in a concrete form things we had abstractly conceptualized but didn't know how to articulate or use. He does that beautifully. That's where he's a gifted teacher.

Sorcerers speak of sorcery as a magical mysterious bird, which has paused in its flight for a moment in order to give a man hope and purpose... nagual Elías THE POWER OF SILENCE
10-Sep-2007 01:37 AM
Encuentra todos sus mensajes
OldDog Sin conexión
Member
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Mensajes: 60
Registro en: Sep 2007
Mensaje: #45
The Nagual Castaneda
I was wondering if this topic is taboo – guess not.

They got me twice! (Disillusionment). A year or two ago I was reading the CC books yet again and had no problem believing him. I got very excited and started searching the internet for any articles I could find about CC. Then I found Sustained Action. Boom! my childlike faith was crushed and I got very depressed and angry. I gave up and became a consumer of entertainment - anything to distract myself from my empty heart. Smoking weed daily, drinking, getting fatter, X-box and movies were my life.

Months ago I got fed up with my life again. I started reading CC again. I find them to be very inspirational end empowering. Forgot all about my prior disillusionment and I got very excited. I started searching the internet for any articles about CC. Then I found Sustained Action again. Started reading the articles and started to remember that I’ve done this all before. Boom, crushed again! Thank you SA! (sarcasm)

This time I reacted differently. On the one hand, after reading the evidence, I believed that CC misled everyone and that all he wrote could be false. On the other hand, I could not deny the positive influence CC has had on my life. I had got physically fit, quit smoking & drinking, dramatically reduced my zombie like reaction to entertainment. In short, my will power went through the roof.

So I asked myself how could I resolve this contradiction. I did not want to build my house on sand but so much of what CC wrote felt true. Things like inner silence, intention and personal power felt very true to my heart. I felt these things were rocks I could build a strong foundation on. I also need inspiration and encouragement. I shook off my fear and started reading what the critics of CC had to say. Some contend that CC took ideas from others and combined them. I was heartened by this; after all if others can testify to similar ideas then it was far more likely that they may have merit.

So for now I believe because I need to believe & I believe without believing.

I cling to nothing so I will have nothing to defend

Cita:Excerpts from: Conjuring Brujos: Did don Juan and don Genaro Exist?
by Sandy McIntosh and Randy Stark

http://sustainedaction.org/Explorations/...brujos.htm

BGM (Barbara G. Myerhoff) : No, but at that time nobody had any reason to doubt him, you understand. So many things he said and wrote about seemed so right. One reason people get so upset when you call him a hoaxer is that he teaches in a concrete if allegorical form. His story comes to them as direct experience. Zap! It hits them, and they know it's right.

RdeM (Richard de Mille): It has the certainty of art rather than the dubiousness of fact.

BGM: Exactly. So you are attacking not just him but their own private experience, which has truth value for them. The form he teaches in is essential. It's as important as the content. His allegory. His mirroring. He gives us in a concrete form things we had abstractly conceptualized but didn't know how to articulate or use. He does that beautifully. That's where he's a gifted teacher.

Sorcerers speak of sorcery as a magical mysterious bird, which has paused in its flight for a moment in order to give a man hope and purpose... nagual Elías THE POWER OF SILENCE
10-Sep-2007 01:37 AM
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ensonar Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #46
The Nagual Castaneda
Cita: So for now I believe because I need to believe & I believe without believing.

I cling to nothing so I will have nothing to defend
Marvelously put!
11-Sep-2007 09:23 AM
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ensonar Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #47
The Nagual Castaneda
Cita: So for now I believe because I need to believe & I believe without believing.

I cling to nothing so I will have nothing to defend
Marvelously put!
11-Sep-2007 09:23 AM
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ensonar Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #48
The Nagual Castaneda
Cita: So for now I believe because I need to believe & I believe without believing.

I cling to nothing so I will have nothing to defend
Marvelously put!
11-Sep-2007 09:23 AM
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ruthless Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #49
The Nagual Castaneda
"the nagual castaneda",
that has a really funny ring to it. especially if you, as i did, started reading him in '73. i'm pretty sure he wasn't a nagual in '66 or whenever it was he started meeting DJ.
i met CC in '70 or '71 when he was lecturing at the CIA (California Institute of the Arts). i think he was promoting "a separate reality: further conversations with DJ". i mentioned in my introduction that english was my second language, and when i heard CC lecture my english really wasn't where i could really understand what he might have been saying. but to this day, for me DJ's teachings began in "JtI".

IMO (does that mean "in my opinion?"), CC's accomplishment is astonishing whether he made all that shit up, whether DJ is a metaphorical teacher, or whether it all took place, just as CC chronicled it.

if he made it all up, in a way IMHO (does that mean "in my humble opinion"?), that would be even more astounding than if he had many teachers whom he metamorphosized into DJ. to come up with a belief system like that, that (for me personally) really works & can make life infinitely better, that would be truly amazing.

i lean toward believing that DJ & his lineage decided that the knowledge of the toltecs should be "put out there" again, and it sure seems like the picked the right man for the job. bunches of toltecs came out of the woodwork, or wherever they were "hiding".

so then CC sat down & started writing books, not as a writer, but as a hunter/warrior. i think that yes, carlito missed the boat (self-importance probably got him) - so? does that make anything he said less meaningful?

rivers & rainbows, ruthless

P.S.: I was reading some thread here that i couldn't find again, but somebody mentioned how they got the whole series of CC books at once. that must be an interesting experience , rather than having to wait 20 years for "PoS" after reading "DJ: a yaqui way of knowledge". some people just have all the luck <_<
16-Jan-2008 01:32 AM
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Merged Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #50
The Nagual Castaneda
My perspective on this has always been the same, since I discovered the whole CC hoax thing. One thing I found funny was an article based on CC's first two books explaining a timeline discrepancy with la Catalina in that it portrayed CC knowing exactly who she was then afterwards knowing nothing. Then after this the whole heightened awareness saga starts and makes a whole lot of sense in the context. And that while he was supposedly hopped up on payote he was actually in a library somewhere in the US.

Just an example of what brought that about for me.
The way I see it is; you know the expression there's nothing new under the sun? Well it's true; we get all of our ideas and creativity from silent knowledge. And if these concepts are questionable to you then you can regard it as the subconscious mind. We know in psychology that there are three states that govern our perception, the subconscious, preconscious and conscious mind. Now the subconscious is what we really perceive, our ability to do so is infinitely more complex than we ever realize, only that our preconscious acts as a filter for what it governs is relevant to our experience. When we take drugs for instance we hamper that filter, hence the trip. Point being that even if CC was sitting in a library in the US while he was meant to have been pissing on a dog in the desert lets say - it doesn't make one shred of difference because the lessons whether they come from Don Juan or CC's imagination (which is really silent knowledge/subconscious) they are still just as valid because one way or the other the source is the exact same.

The real question behind it is; “are these methods really refined from thousands of years of practice from the ancient Aztec Naguals?â€

This user is a merge of users with less than 5 posts or all posts in less than one week. Maybe the merged is more interesting than the original users.

Este usuario es una combinación de usuarios con menos de 5 mensajes o que escribió todo en menos de una semana. Quizá el usuario combinado resulte mas interesante que los usuarios originales.
12-Jun-2008 08:54 AM
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Merged Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #51
The Nagual Castaneda
My perspective on this has always been the same, since I discovered the whole CC hoax thing. One thing I found funny was an article based on CC's first two books explaining a timeline discrepancy with la Catalina in that it portrayed CC knowing exactly who she was then afterwards knowing nothing. Then after this the whole heightened awareness saga starts and makes a whole lot of sense in the context. And that while he was supposedly hopped up on payote he was actually in a library somewhere in the US.

Just an example of what brought that about for me.
The way I see it is; you know the expression there's nothing new under the sun? Well it's true; we get all of our ideas and creativity from silent knowledge. And if these concepts are questionable to you then you can regard it as the subconscious mind. We know in psychology that there are three states that govern our perception, the subconscious, preconscious and conscious mind. Now the subconscious is what we really perceive, our ability to do so is infinitely more complex than we ever realize, only that our preconscious acts as a filter for what it governs is relevant to our experience. When we take drugs for instance we hamper that filter, hence the trip. Point being that even if CC was sitting in a library in the US while he was meant to have been pissing on a dog in the desert lets say - it doesn't make one shred of difference because the lessons whether they come from Don Juan or CC's imagination (which is really silent knowledge/subconscious) they are still just as valid because one way or the other the source is the exact same.

The real question behind it is; “are these methods really refined from thousands of years of practice from the ancient Aztec Naguals?â€

This user is a merge of users with less than 5 posts or all posts in less than one week. Maybe the merged is more interesting than the original users.

Este usuario es una combinación de usuarios con menos de 5 mensajes o que escribió todo en menos de una semana. Quizá el usuario combinado resulte mas interesante que los usuarios originales.
12-Jun-2008 08:54 AM
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Merged Sin conexión
Senior Member
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Mensajes: 278
Registro en: May 2006
Mensaje: #52
The Nagual Castaneda
My perspective on this has always been the same, since I discovered the whole CC hoax thing. One thing I found funny was an article based on CC's first two books explaining a timeline discrepancy with la Catalina in that it portrayed CC knowing exactly who she was then afterwards knowing nothing. Then after this the whole heightened awareness saga starts and makes a whole lot of sense in the context. And that while he was supposedly hopped up on payote he was actually in a library somewhere in the US.

Just an example of what brought that about for me.
The way I see it is; you know the expression there's nothing new under the sun? Well it's true; we get all of our ideas and creativity from silent knowledge. And if these concepts are questionable to you then you can regard it as the subconscious mind. We know in psychology that there are three states that govern our perception, the subconscious, preconscious and conscious mind. Now the subconscious is what we really perceive, our ability to do so is infinitely more complex than we ever realize, only that our preconscious acts as a filter for what it governs is relevant to our experience. When we take drugs for instance we hamper that filter, hence the trip. Point being that even if CC was sitting in a library in the US while he was meant to have been pissing on a dog in the desert lets say - it doesn't make one shred of difference because the lessons whether they come from Don Juan or CC's imagination (which is really silent knowledge/subconscious) they are still just as valid because one way or the other the source is the exact same.

The real question behind it is; “are these methods really refined from thousands of years of practice from the ancient Aztec Naguals?â€

This user is a merge of users with less than 5 posts or all posts in less than one week. Maybe the merged is more interesting than the original users.

Este usuario es una combinación de usuarios con menos de 5 mensajes o que escribió todo en menos de una semana. Quizá el usuario combinado resulte mas interesante que los usuarios originales.
12-Jun-2008 08:54 AM
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