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true Sin conexión

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Registro en: Oct 2007
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Carlos was quoted as having said that sorcerers have only one point of reference: infinity.

This has amazing implications.
If infinity is one's reference point, do you understand that it is impossible to make a comparison or reference or measurement in infinity?
Do you realise where that leaves one?

Utterly stopped and empty-minded!
I love it.

And what's more, not only does this deny one of attaching to any single perspective or opinion, if your reference point truly is infinity, will you not see all viewpoints simultaneously?

Can you imagine?
Please try it for a moment if you haven't already.
If you don't know what this source is, what power can your source-ery hold?

13-Oct-2007 01:27 PM
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smellyfart Sin conexión

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Registro en: Mar 2007
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wow! that sounds amazing. such a perspective truly must be without words. how SCARY!
14-Oct-2007 04:36 PM
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Merged Sin conexión
Senior Member

Mensajes: 278
Registro en: May 2006
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Lacking limits! Endless! We have the potential to be anything and go anywhere! Can we unlock the block and go there?! :mellow:


This user is a merge of users with less than 5 posts or all posts in less than one week. Maybe the merged is more interesting than the original users.

Este usuario es una combinación de usuarios con menos de 5 mensajes o que escribió todo en menos de una semana. Quizá el usuario combinado resulte mas interesante que los usuarios originales.
18-Oct-2007 01:57 AM
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true Sin conexión

Mensajes: 169
Registro en: Oct 2007
Mensaje: #4
I've had some more success with this recently.
In zen, non-duality/advaita, and other meditation practices, one can observe directly that there is no self/ego - or better said, what we recognize AS the ego self is merely a bundle of thoughts, and these thoughts are arising from the source and passing away into the source... they ARE the unmanifest source in its manifestation.
Anyway, when you perceive this directly you are very aware that the ego self is a thought object just like all other thought objects in the world. This is significant because we can also observe that in a state of self-importance or self-pity, the self is considering itself THE subject, "I", existing IN the world.
This is, IMO, what CC meant by tonal and nagual. Anything you can think of or conceptualize is a thought object, has a pair, and belongs to the island ("I"-land) of the tonal. The nagual is the one true subject, the unmanifest source. When the "I"-thought arises, mind and objects of thought arise simultaneously. When the "I"-thought is absent, no-mind, no thought objects - the thinker and its thoughts co-arise; the thinker is not "other than" "its" thoughts.
When the "I"-thought (the self believing itself to be seperate from its thoughts and thus the world) dominates your awareness, that is the first attention: the tonal has (only apparently) dethroned the nagual; the guardian has become a guard, as DJ said. It does this because it falsely assumes itself to be the subject instead of an object (not unlike the Gnostic demiurgos who falsely assumes itself to be God).

So back to Infinity as the only reference point and experiencing this more:
Infinity, the source, is the one subject, and the manifested world(s) is its object. So instead of imagining yourself as an "individual" object with an "individual" consciousness, notice that there is one source which is the sole source of consciousness. Consciousness doesn't belong to you - it's not one of your objects - you ARE an object IN or AS the source's dream. You are not the dreamer; you (as individual ego self) are the dream; you are being dreamt; you are an object.

Notice I said "IN or AS" the source's dream... when you identify with your tonal, it would be appropriate, from that perspective, to say you are IN the dream since you believe yourself seperate. But when you are not in the first attention, identified with the tonal, you are the nagual and exist AS the source's dream, because you are one with the source, not seperate. Truth is, you're always one with the source and never seperate, but as the tonal seperation SEEMS to be so.

Back to experiencing Infinity as the reference point:
So you know how as an individual it seems we possess individual consciousness...
Thus each manifest thought object - from subatomic particles, to insects, to man, to solar systems, etc... seems to possess its own unique consciousness that makes it what it is doing what it does...
Now recall/realise that there is one source, one consciousness, having one dream, right now, manifesting as THIS, in infinite variety. What is infinite variety to us is one "thought", one "dream" of the source, not happening here and there and there, and over there... but ONE!

Yet one more bit of description that might aid one in imagining Infinity as reference point, similar to what was just said but with a visual aid:
Practitioners of zen and non-duality have likened the source-subject and its thought-objects to a film being projected upon a screen. The white, blank screen is unchanged and unaltered and unidentified with the film contents being displayed upon it. A film about a fire does not burn the screen.
Such is a man or woman: an object of consciousness, like the screen, and one needn't be attached or identified by the thoughts that arise and pass away, nor by events that occur in one's life, on one's screen. Because it's not YOUR life. The screen doesn't imagine that the film is about it! Life is just life... not yours and mine and theirs. It's happening, but it happens to no one. But the ego/tonal says, "It's happening to me! It's all about me! This must mean something and I have to find out WHY this is happening to ME!"
Anyway, now you see your screen with whatever is occuring in your life... and they have their screen with different occurences and their lives are different... etc.
Now realise that to the source there are not individual screens and individual films, but the source's ONE film and all manifest life is ONE substance which forms ONE screen upon which the source's film is being played. And it's happening NOW.
22-Nov-2007 09:53 AM
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