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A verbal expression of ... awakening
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A verbal expression of ... awakening
Hsin Hsin Ming:

A Verbal Expression of the Direct Experience of Awakening



The Perfect Way is not so difficult if you have no preferences.
Once you stop loving this and hating that, it becomes clear with no disguises.

But make just the smallest distinction between one thing and the other and you create infinite separation. So if you want to live in truth, then do not have any opinions for or against anything.

Setting your likes against your dislikes is the disease of the mind.
If you do not know the deeper meaning of the Way, your peace of mind is needlessly disturbed.

Though the Way is as perfect as the vastness of space, where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess, it is your choosing to accept and reject things that prevent you from seeing the true nature of life.

Do not live seeking answers from the external world or by sinking into your inner feelings of emptiness.
Just calmly and impartially see, feel, hear, taste, the oneness of things and duality will disappear into itself.

When you strive to create stillness by stopping the mind’s natural activity, the resulting quiet is itself active and in motion. As long as you remain attached to one or the other of these extremes you can never realize that which is "not two."

And when you do not understand this you fail in two ways. By denying the reality you insist upon its very existence and by insisting upon the emptiness you are denying its reality.

The more that you talk and think about Liberation the further away you wander from the truth. Stop this attachment to all speech and thought about being Awake and you will soon find it everywhere.

Go within to your source and you will find meaning but if you look outside of yourself all meaning will be lost. To be Liberated for just a moment is to transcend the appearance and emptiness in the world.

Do not search for new truths - just stop all attachment to your beliefs and judgments. Be ever vigilant of all dualities while you carefully avoid the pursuit of new ones.

If there is even a trace of this or that, of right or wrong, you will be left in confusion.
Although all duality comes from that which is "not two", do not be concerned even with this "One Without a Second."

Have no objections to or blame for anything in the world and your life will flow in front of you.
And when your discriminating thoughts no longer exist, your mind as you knew it, will no longer exist.

You (as the subject) believe in your separate existence because of external things seen as objects.
Yet neither the inner subject nor external object can exist without each other.

Understand the relativity of you and the other and you understand the basic reality - that which is "Not Two". In this reality you cannot tell one from the other as each contains the whole world within.

Do not discriminate between what is coarse and what is fine and you will not be for or against anything.
Living in the Great Way is your nature. Neither easy nor difficult - it simply Is.

Relying on your limited views creates fear and indecisiveness - the faster you hurry, the slower you go.
You cannot pick and choose your attachments. Even attachment to the idea of Liberation points away from the truth.

Let things be as they are, accept life as it is, in this way there is neither expectation nor disbelief.
See the flow inherent in life and move effortlessly with it and you will live freely and undisturbed.

When your thoughts are in bondage the truth is always hidden behind the cloudy and unclear mind.
And the disturbing practice of judging yourself and the other only leaves you empty and weary inside.
No benefits can ever be gained from constant judgments and separations.

To live freely in Non-duality is to accept everything as indistinguishable, even the world of senses and ideas. To accept everything completely, totally is identical with true Liberation.

The wise man makes no efforts to do anything, but the foolish man binds himself in nothing but doing.
There is only one truth, One Taste - not many; your separation originates from attachments and judgments.

To seek the no-mind of Liberation with the mind of identity is the greatest of all mistakes.
Opposites originate as illusions from within your mind; with Liberation there are no opposites - no liking of this or disliking of that.

All forms of duality come from the illusory boundaries created within your mind.
They are like dreams, hallucinations, phantoms in the air and it is foolish to try to hold onto them.
Gain and loss, right and wrong, you must eliminate these thoughts now, once and for all.

If you never sleep, there will be no dreaming and all your dreams will naturally come to an end.
In the same way, if your mind creates no distinctions then all things are seen as they are, One Fundamental Reality.

If you understand the mystery of that which is "not two" you will be released from all bondage.
When you are able to see all things as equal, without distinction, you have reached your true identity.

No comparisons or analogies are possible in this causeless, relation-less state.
Think carefully about the motion that exists in stillness and the stillness that exists in motion, both movement and stillness disappear.

When these dualities no longer exist, Advaita itself cannot exist.
And in the Absolute, this end of everything separate, there are no rules, no laws, and no descriptions.

Only here and now can all your struggles be stilled, your doubts and indecisiveness disappeared and an Liberated life becomes possible. And in each moment, you are free from your bondage, you are attached to nothing and nothing clings to you. All becomes clear, empty, and self-illuminating without any effort from your mind.

When doubts come up, just say "not two" and you will flow directly into harmony with this reality.
In this "not two" you and everything are no longer separate, you and everything are no longer excluded.
No matter when and no matter where, Liberation means entering this truth.
And in this truth there is no time, no space, no differentiation; a single moment is infinite.

There is emptiness within you and emptiness outside you and still the universe is always right in front of you. When your personal definitions and self-constructed boundaries disappear the universe is both infinitely large and infinitely small ~ there is no difference.

It is also this way with Being and non-being.
Do not waste any time wallowing in doubts and arguments that have nothing to do with this reality.

Everything is the One, and the One is in everything; no boundaries except those created by your mind.
If you can realize just this, you will no longer worry about your and the worlds non-perfection.

To live with this conviction is the way to non-duality, because the non-dual is already unified with the mind that trusts in the Way.

Words!
The Way is beyond all language, because within the Way there is no past, no
future and no present.
26-Nov-2007 05:19 PM
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A verbal expression of ... awakening
Though I do like the idea of non-duality, and can definitely see the use in aiming towards it, I'm not so sure that one should give up all likes and dislikes, or at least the concept of choosing between them.

The realization that everything is equal and nothing matters is enough to clear one's perception of the fact that in reality all likes and dislikes are equally unimportant. But I would assume that that is where controlled folly comes in and allows one to make choices based on one's predilections, preferences, or likes, if you will.

I don't recall which book it was, but there was a moment where don Juan noticed that Carlos had acheived one of the warrior's greatest feats, to want nothing. But in the process he had stopped liking anything, and had become heavy and morose.

I think perhaps the feeling of liking things is one of the things that makes life enjoyable in the face of all the possible terror that surrounds us. Maybe the aim shouldn't be so much choosing between likes and dislikes, but choosing between likes; Which do I like more? Which path is most enjoyable to me personally? Which is my path with heart?
27-Nov-2007 10:57 AM
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A verbal expression of ... awakening
Greetings.
I'd like to thank you for presenting this forum. It's much appreciated.


For me, non-duality doesn't prescribe that we put forth any effort to give up our likes or dislikes. Through vigilance, one may come to see that our likes and dislikes are not "ours"... they are not "chosen" by a "me". If you think about it, or look directly at it, we can't choose to dislike what we like or like what we dislike. These things are seen to be part of our programming, conditioning, genetics and environment. They happen on a physical level and not a mental one.

When we see directly that the "me" does not exist save as a collection of thoughts given cohesion and a sense of continuity via memory, then these likes and dislikes fall away as the "me-nature" is "seen through" (as illusory). These likes and dislikes are also thoughts that arise and don't particularly belong to anyone. You stop being a "one" to whom they could belong. So there is no effort or choice to get rid of likes and dislikes. Any effort is seen as futile because it automatically arouses the mind and thinking... it's sets up duality and thus impossibility.
Let me explain why it's impossible to resolve through duality/mind. Take the example "I choose to surrender my likes and dislikes." This very thought, the very process of thinking and choosing and desiring something (other) intends the duality, the seperation between "I" and "likes and dislikes". Seperation, lack, desire, change... all arise with the illusory "I" thought. Without the belief in "I", none of these can exist. That is they exist, along with the "I", in their primordial state as undifferentiated substance... thoughts arising and passing away, out of and into the void/source; thoughts without distinction.

I guess I've already said much of this. It won't matter how much I say it. One has to pause and look at it directly... look for this "I"; who is this "I"?; what is the source of this "I"? When it is seen, no explanations are needed. And nothing needs to be done about it. The "I" is a thought arising in the void. You are not only this "I" thought. You are the entirety, the void, empty and yet containing all thought potentials arising. What would the void do about this one thought arising, this "I" thought? Why would that thought arising be any different from the zillions of thoughts arising that it would need something to be done about it? (Again, it is without distinction in this context.)

The path with heart is also not a choice. You are aware that it feels "right" to walk it. There is no thought given to this. The word "heart" in eastern paths often signifies "the core". Your core being, without thoughts and accumulated inventory, will naturally respond to what is in a harmonious, wholistic, perfect way. No thought or choice necessary.

From our limited seperated perspective, there seems much to do to become a warrior, sorcerer or seer. But everything is happening regardless of our striving. And when we have finally realised our link with intent, we see that we still have no choice... we are slaves to spirit/intent... we cannot act against it or outside of it. Even while we believe we are seperate, we are acting according to the will of intent. And when we become realised, we still act according to the will of intent! Big Grin

That's why it's all folly. You can act as if what you do matters, but a warrior-seer knows (directly perceives - not with the mind, but with his/her totality) that it doesn't make a damn difference.
27-Nov-2007 10:06 PM
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You're welcome and thank you. However, to be blunt, I have a hard time being interested enough in what your saying to read through so many words and thoughts. It seems like you're kind of talking in circles about the obvious. Or at least the obvious to anyone who's studied a bit of eastern philosophy and/or nagualist writings.

Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong or am just being impatient. But I feel that subjects such as these would be more successful if summed up more concisely and less pedantically. More from the heart and less from the book.
27-Nov-2007 10:47 PM
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Well, what I notice is that in this last post you say I'm talking about the obvious and in your post before that you call non-duality an idea and speak of the use of aiming towards it.

Is the existence of the Nagual (as source, not leader of a group) another idea that you like and think could be useful?

Non-duality (Oneness) is what's left when all ideas are absent. The Nagual is what's left when the tonal is absent.


I don't think you're impatient. I think you're not interested. I think your lack of interest may be based on a conclusion you've made, an opinion you believe is more than just a description.

In the moment, thoughts like "heart" and "book" don't arise. I'm not being either. They're concepts that come afterwards due to thinking. "Successful", "more concise", "less pedantic"... sincerely, you're not getting the obvious. You've probably heard a million times that a warrior isn't concerned with success or failure, but you're still thinking in terms of them.

Why do you think it hasn't "gotten through"?
28-Nov-2007 02:41 AM
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Carlos' books are much longer than my posts, and you probably made it through them ok. And I'd say the reason is value - you thought they held something of value. You think my posts do not.

Value is another item that concerns the mind which is always seeking to acquire. I'd suggest you drop that, if you can.

Nothing here has any value, as all things are equal, as you said above. But I don't think you know what you said or you'd act accordingly.
28-Nov-2007 02:49 AM
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I was basically just speaking from my feelings, trying to filter them as little as possible.

The feeling I get from your posts is that you're trying to sum up all of the things that you've read into several different posts in such a way as to seem like your giving us little lectures about things which, although interesting to some degree, are nothing new.

I've read all of Carlos' books several times, as well as many books by others. The difference is that they are all stating something new to me. They are all stating something from original experience rather than rehashing what they've read and combined.

I think that message boards like this are useful in the way that people like us can say, "hey, I've got a problem I'd like to ask about" or "I just discovered something amazing this afternoon" or "how are you guys doing" or etc.

Speaking to each other as comrades rather than as people you'd like to teach.

I'm definitely not saying that I think I'm 100% on the mark as far as you are concerned, but these are the feeling I get from you, and have gotten from others before.
29-Nov-2007 09:30 AM
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Cita:The feeling I get from your posts is that you're trying to sum up all of the things that you've read into several different posts in such a way as to seem like your giving us little lectures about things which, although interesting to some degree, are nothing new.

I think that message boards like this are useful in the way that people like us can say, "hey, I've got a problem I'd like to ask about" or "I just discovered something amazing this afternoon" or "how are you guys doing" or etc.

Speaking to each other as comrades rather than as people you'd like to teach.

I'm definitely not saying that I think I'm 100% on the mark as far as you are concerned, but these are the feeling I get from you, and have gotten from others before.
Well summed up, ensonar. I read the first few of true's posts in various threads but then, also, felt like they were going around in circles. I was inclined to post something like you've stated here because they do sound like monologues of sort (preaching) but then figured, neh, I couldn't be assed.

I realise now that what seemed to bug me about his/her style was the fact that I heard my own voice sounding just as preachy (remembering a few posts I've made). So for that, I thank you, true.

In regards to non-dualism and other teachings. On the surface they seem glib, convincing and reasonable but when you get down to it, are really dealing with effects. To me anyway. The cause is the flyer's mind. Bratschewarrior (or however you spell it) put it nicely in another thread: We are not free. We are not free. We are not free.

To see energy is my prime concern. I'll leave it at that before I start preaching. Wink
29-Nov-2007 11:24 AM
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True, a little reciprocity for helping me hear the voice of my preaching...a recommendation actually. Seriously.

Since you seem to like writing about what you are involved with, give it some purpose: Write a book. But don't just regurgitate the same information. Make it useful for a reader, give it some context, come from a different angle; talk about how it has changed your life so maybe a person in a similar situation can apply it and benefit like you believe you have.

My biological brother, a natural writer, gave this one piece of advice: Let the theme of your book be freedom. Or don't. Do what you want.
29-Nov-2007 11:32 AM
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And whatever you do, don't run away all hurt and dejected and vow to never talk to those jerks who don't agree with you again!

That seems to happen a lot around here for some reason. Smile
30-Nov-2007 01:04 PM
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Greetings ensonar,

Why do you have to interpret and insert meanings into everything? Can't you take something for what it is, it's bare existence, without adding your dialogue to it?

It's just a sincere observation. But, if you remain true to your history, you'll probably read the above and IMAGINE that you've pissed me off.

Can you talk with me without your imagination? I'd prefer it. Why are your feelings about my posts worth something to you?

Here's something new for you (can you consider that everything I say is new and you may be listening with old ears? I bet you've heard that before too. Could it be that just because you heard something or read something, even a hundred times, you may not KNOW it? You may not be APPLYING it?): Try having a conversation without imagining that you know what's happening, that you have any idea who I am or where I'm coming from. Can you just be present with me, first time, never been here before?

If not, we're not having any conversation for me to stick around for. You're talking with your own inner dialogue, not with me.

Listen to this, if you are able to... just listen... don't think, don't think you already know... just listen...

I AM NOT LECTURING, PREACHING OR TEACHING. THOSE ARE PERSONAL, SUBJECTIVELY ASSIGNED ATTRIBUTIONS. YOU ARE TAKING MY POSTS PERSONALLY AS IF THEY ARE TO YOU OR SOMEBODY SPECIFIC. THEY'RE JUST POSTS. I'M SHARING WHAT I HAVE FOUND HELPFUL TO MYSELF.

Now, don't begin to reflect back and study my past posts and point out to me where I'm lecturing and preaching and being personal. Just take me at my word. You don't know anything about me. You don't know anything absolutely. No one does. So would you like to not-do and control your folly, or do you want to think you know something and stay where you feel safe and important?

No one here who has replied to me seems to know how to do that or to be interested in doing that. So if I am not attracted to your boring imaginary projections about me, it doesn't mean anything about feeling hurt or dejected or whether anyone agrees with me. I'm just very real and don't have time for your imagination, or anyone else's.

And in case you didn't know, anything you think you know is your imagination, even if you end up being right about it. As a warrior, you should be so lucky as to never find your feelings confirmed.

Do you get that, or am I wasting our time?

At least answer that last question, since you, and others here, tend to avoid answering any of them. Is it because according to my rules, (and their not mine, nor are they rules) you might have to admit that you are free and have no excuses? You people cling to your books and sorcerers' descriptions and rules because they give you a reason NOT TO BE whatever it is you think you WANT TO BE.

I AM, right now.
What the fuck are you people waiting for? Yes, I know... Don Juan gave you permission to wait. You're a bunch of followers. Drop the games and talk to me. Or you can bore me to death and I'll stop coming around and you can feel better than me since I just couldn't get you guys... I don't get what it's like to be a real warrior, right? I get it fine. I also get that ALL inventory needs to be dropped eventually. How do you know I haven't dropped mine and you're just not there yet? The answer isn't: "Because... x, y, z." The answer is, you don't know.

Can you keep not-knowing? Cause that's what it's like to be a real warrior-seer.

You people know too much for me. I'm not telling you what I know. I'm telling you how I learned to not know. And no one is interested in not-knowing.

And don't argue that if you don't know anything we can't talk. I'm saying drop the useless shit that you think you know... you can maintan the functional portion... just drop the psychological, ego portion.

What is functional? For example, you have to retain knowledge of the language.
What is psychological? For example, that my post "feels" like something; that I "seem" something; that anything you or I say can be interpreted "personally". You don't need the "person" to talk to me about reality.


Do this, and I promise my posts will be short. Wink


But that's all you're interested in...
What'd you say? Less book and more heart? What you want is something personal, and you're asking a non-person to be personal. This isn't mine. But I'm not re-hashing books either. The fact is, you don't know whether I'm being original or not. You can't know. And you should thank the Eagle for that.

If you've seen this "teaching, lecturing syndrome" in others, how is it original to see it in me? You want me to be original, but not yourself? Just let it go. Stop knowing. Stop needing to know. Only the mind gives a shit about knowing, and you're more than that.


Are there any real people here?
As long as you keep offering me your unoriginal internal dialogue externally projected... I'll have to keep offering you my "preaching" to get beyond it.

Would you like to start anew?
30-Nov-2007 10:50 PM
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A verbal expression of ... awakening
Short version:

Give up thinking you know.
Give up knowing or wanting to know.
Stop wanting to control this.
What are you afraid of?

It's beyond your control.
That's a bare fact.
Why be afraid of what is?
Will you keep trying to ignore reality forever?

Yes, you've heard this before.
Stop hearing it and start being it.


Does it matter if I'm preaching or not?
Calling me a preacher or teacher is just your way of avoiding what you know would be beneficial to do.
Are you really going to argue with me that thinking is good for your 'warrior's way'? Do you want to argue that it saves you energy? I might agree with you there, since you can sit on your ass and not do anything about this. ("this" being the fact that thinking is a direct obstruction to seeing and acting - things warriors do.)
30-Nov-2007 11:07 PM
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Greetings ensonar,

Here is my previous post to you. It was very honest and original and could be the basis for a real dialogue. You could respond to my questions, just like I had responded to yours. When you ignore a question, there's something in it for your mind, some hiding and protecting. A real dialogue would be to expose the mind as the nothing that it is, not to protect it.

In a real conversation, one sees a question and one answers that question. Don't answer something else, or avoid it... that would be some other conversation (with yourself).

So here are observations that were aimed at exposing the belief in mind. Add to it the post before about value being something the mind is interested in. Well, here... I'll re-post both of them:

I said:
Well, what I notice is that in this last post you say I'm talking about the obvious and in your post before that you call non-duality an idea and speak of the use of aiming towards it.

Is the existence of the Nagual (as source, not leader of a group) another idea that you like and think could be useful?

Non-duality (Oneness) is what's left when all ideas are absent. The Nagual is what's left when the tonal is absent.


I don't think you're impatient. I think you're not interested. I think your lack of interest may be based on a conclusion you've made, an opinion you believe is more than just a description.

In the moment, thoughts like "heart" and "book" don't arise. I'm not being either. They're concepts that come afterwards due to thinking. "Successful", "more concise", "less pedantic"... sincerely, you're not getting the obvious. You've probably heard a million times that a warrior isn't concerned with success or failure, but you're still thinking in terms of them.

Why do you think it hasn't "gotten through"?


And the previous post:

Carlos' books are much longer than my posts, and you probably made it through them ok. And I'd say the reason is value - you thought they held something of value. You think my posts do not.

Value is another item that concerns the mind which is always seeking to acquire. I'd suggest you drop that, if you can.

Nothing here has any value, as all things are equal, as you said above. But I don't think you know what you said or you'd act accordingly.


Please reply. I'm sincerely interested.
This isn't personal. If I said "you", feel free to swap that term to the general... we're talking about any mind, not yours. All minds are the same. Let's talk about this mind that seeks knowledge and value, etc... Let's investigate it together.

Or not.

I know you replied to the second post, but you didn't address the core issue - that the mind seeks value, needs to acquire, etc. You clarified what it was that you valued (new, original) but as long as you believe in value/unvaluable, you will keep seeking value without becoming a warrior.

Isn't that so?
30-Nov-2007 11:21 PM
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Forfucksake:

Greetings.

You said,"I realise now that what seemed to bug me about his/her style was the fact that I heard my own voice sounding just as preachy (remembering a few posts I've made). So for that, I thank you, true."


So basically, you see as you think and think as you see.

Wouldn't you like to get out of that cycle?

You said, "True, a little reciprocity for helping me hear the voice of my preaching...a recommendation actually. Seriously.

Since you seem to like writing about what you are involved with, give it some purpose: Write a book. But don't just regurgitate the same information. Make it useful for a reader, give it some context, come from a different angle; talk about how it has changed your life so maybe a person in a similar situation can apply it and benefit like you believe you have."


Usefulness isn't something I can make for you or anyone else. You know very well that it's a matter of personal power.
People love to hear stories... personal stories about persons... because they're afraid of the non-person, the impersonal awareness, that we truly are. They want to shield themselves from that fact with personal stories.

Could it be possible that I am already aware of how I am posting, and that I strategically choose to post that way to avoid the personal? Knowledge isn't personal. There is no person to whom knowledge belongs. It doesn't have angles. People have angles. My life hasn't changed! lol! And I don't believe anything.

Sincerely,
true
30-Nov-2007 11:56 PM
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Cita: I was basically just speaking from my feelings, trying to filter them as little as possible.

The feeling I get from your posts is that you're trying to sum up all of the things that you've read into several different posts in such a way as to seem like your giving us little lectures about things which, although interesting to some degree, are nothing new.

I've read all of Carlos' books several times, as well as many books by others. The difference is that they are all stating something new to me. They are all stating something from original experience rather than rehashing what they've read and combined.


I think that message boards like this are useful in the way that people like us can say, "hey, I've got a problem I'd like to ask about" or "I just discovered something amazing this afternoon" or "how are you guys doing" or etc.

Speaking to each other as comrades rather than as people you'd like to teach.

I'm definitely not saying that I think I'm 100% on the mark as far as you are concerned, but these are the feeling I get from you, and have gotten from others before.


I don't get your obsession with things needing to be new. There's nothing new under the sun. Are you a new ager? lol!

How about giving up this idea. Things just are... they're neither new nor old.

But you can maintain your AP on the same position for as long as you like, or you can move it... and everything will be new.

From your posts, I gather that you want the world to bring new things to you so you don't have to do any work.

I've never had this conversation with you before, so it can't be old. But you can listen or read from the same AP spot/inventory as you have in the past.

Why blame me for it though?


I've been using the message board according to your prescription. Did I not say that this is what I've found helpful for myself. I'm not teaching. You're projecting teaching. If I were teaching, there'd be students learning. Do you see any students learning? Do you see a classroom with my name on the blackboard?
I'm just sharing what I know. If you don't like seeing a teacher, stop seeing yourself as a student. Again, why do you blame me for your projections and labels?


You don't need to say you're 100% on the mark. Fact is, you're treating me like a suspect... like I need to pass your test or examination. Is that what being a comrade is about? All this is you... your projecting it on me because it concerns you. I'm no teacher. But you are the established moderator. The question is, are you a good one?

I didn't come here to have you place rules on me or teach me how to make my posts likeable. And I'm sorry I don't have any problems for you to solve. I have discovered something amazing though, but you insist on thinking you know everything about it while your actions reveal you know nothing. There's nothing magical about your suspicions. So keep sitting there, at a distance, weighing my posts, from a distance. Keep intending the seperation. After all, that's what comrades do at a message board, right.

I especially like how you don't want me to leave dejected, but you've made it clear that I should be something other than I am. You deject people, then you feel better than them when they don't stick around. My post clearly said that I don't know what the moment will bring, so good luck if I don't see you. What about that is being dejected or leaving because you don't agree with me? Again, your concerns, not mine. Do you talk with anyone here, or just your projections of them?

Remember when you said "correct me if I'm wrong..."? Well, I'm correcting you.

Now what?
lol!
01-Dec-2007 01:36 AM
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forfuckssake Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #16
A verbal expression of ... awakening
Miles? Is that you? Wink lol

You said, "So basically, you see as you think and think as you see."

I think so. From the animated series Animatrix (Kid's Story): "There's some truth to your fiction and some fiction in your truth."

You said, "Wouldn't you like to get out of that cycle?"

I was trying to thank you for helping me see/think/realize or, at least, for helping to emphasize that I was still stuck in that cycle.

You said, "People love to hear stories... personal stories about persons... because they're afraid of the non-person, the impersonal awareness, that we truly are. They want to shield themselves from that fact with personal stories."

I saw you would write that.
You can write stories that are impersonal. I didn't say write something personal. I meant "give it some context or a different angle" to help a potential reader arrive at the impersonal. Whether the reader then misses the point and attaches their attention to the stories themselves being presented is up to them. Of course, some don't need those trimmings and just being told it's all mental masturbation is enough.

You said, "My life hasn't changed! lol!"

then in another thread quoted Don Juan:

DJ said,

"There are lots of things a warrior can do at a certain time which he couldn't do years before. Those things themselves did not change; what changed was his idea of himself."


If a reader doesn't attach their attention to what they have habituated or agreed to (while reading a book, for example) maybe they can decide to make what is being presented useful to them, if it changes the perception they have of them self and what's around them; as you have been saying, both of these are one and the same.

You could also write a book without the reader in mind. Fuck them. Do it for your own awareness. Or, as I said, don't.

You said, "You know very well that it's a matter of personal power."

I don't know anything.

"Could it be possible that I am already aware of how I am posting, and that I strategically choose to post that way to avoid the personal?"

Anything is possible.

Grateful,
forfuckssake

PS The reply to me was shorter than those to ensonar- much appreciated.
02-Dec-2007 05:29 AM
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ensonar Sin conexión
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A verbal expression of ... awakening
True:

I'm afraid I may not have the time or interest in to continue this conversation. I gave it a sincere try, but after the second, third, and fourth lengthy responses to my last two sentence response to you, I have chosen to move on.

If you have a specific question that is not surrounded by miles of dialogue, I would be glad to continue talking with you.
02-Dec-2007 09:22 AM
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true Sin conexión
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A verbal expression of ... awakening
Thanks forfucksake.

Ensonar, nothing to continue.
03-Dec-2007 02:16 PM
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ensonar Sin conexión
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A verbal expression of ... awakening
Although I can be an uptight jerk much of the time, I don't totally dismiss my complaints as meaningless. In other words, I think within our argument we both had strong points, as well as weak points. However, I do feel like the argument itself was becoming increasingly heavy and I felt I was getting bogged down in it.

I would like to try and clear all concerns between us and start fresh. Feel free to post whatever you like. I was wrong and downright immature to try and coerce you into being more like me.
04-Dec-2007 10:52 AM
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true Sin conexión
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Mensaje: #20
A verbal expression of ... awakening
Oh.
I just finished a post to you in another thread before this one was available.

Thanks. A new start sounds great!
I'll release my memories pertaining to you and go back to being present.

Ahhh.

Sorry for taking offence. I'm still maturing.
04-Dec-2007 11:26 AM
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